frame
Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Sign In RegisterHowdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Starting immediately, all new users must be approved by a moderator (due to spam issues). #sworry
You can dismiss this message by clicking the little 'X' in the top right this box.
If you are a pro triathlete, please click here to DM AaronWebstey for access to the 'Pros-only' private forum. Don't forget to include your real name, and a link to pro race result would be great if you're a 1st-year pro.
Angry Rant on Podcasting followup
PreachSwanson
Member, Rooster Endurance Member, Rooster Endurance Officers
in TRS Radio
There is a ton of stuff going on in this post.
1) there is the question listed, what should the funding model for TRS radio be?
That is a second level question in my opinion, the first question would be why are you doing TRS radio? Is it to make money? Is it because you love the sport? Is it because you want to quit you day job? Knowing why you are doing it makes it easier to ask how you want to fund it because how you choose to fund it will help dictate how much you can make at funding it.
2) What does TRS radio seek to accomplish? This is not the same question of funding, but they can be related. Do you want to offer an alternative to the incestive or self aggrandizing ramblings of the rest of Triathlon? To do that you would want to be as open as possible. Do you want to move a select, like minded group of people? That can be a closed group with options for new to enter who would be willing to buy in.
3) What is your current audience? You list 4000 listeners and 70 something donors. Those donors are mostly basic level donations for a single show that is much like the other triathlon style podcasts. You also have a group who are in the Team TRS who some may give and others not, but they have "bought" into your vision with team fees. Some of that may have been for the gear, but I doubt it (I've purchased 3 other bike kits since, I can afford a tri kit). I would argue that you have three audiences (at least). The hardcore Team TRS followers, the basic level supporters (some who may be in other camps right now but still believe in you enough to offer on going support) and the ones who simply find you entertaining enough to listen to but don't give a damn about the agenda. The last group is the one you want to engage while maintaining the others.
Personally I would say that you need to know fully your vision and stop whoring yourself out to anything else but that. I can get Audible from anyone with two free books. What I cannot do currently is find a more honest group of athletes who are committed to being "good" but committed to being "real" people as well. I also can find more than enough eccentric athletes talking about their training (I've subscribed and dropped about 12 podcasts so far) but I cannot find someone who not only cares about how well someone finished a race but that they have gone through the same stuff as the rest of us out there. I cannot find someone who is willing to laugh at the stupid stuff we put ourselves through to be .05% faster than last year.
Thanks for telling us that your wife sees this thing as competition, that you can't train much because you have to be TRS or Ben H. Age Group Athlete and that you have all the realities of a real dad with a day job. You've put a metric shit ton of work into this site, this persona, this podcast, this team, etc... now tell yourself why you did that and focus on that and don't worry about some lame email about 1st world problems, like how easy it is to give someone 13 cents and broken pen.
1) there is the question listed, what should the funding model for TRS radio be?
That is a second level question in my opinion, the first question would be why are you doing TRS radio? Is it to make money? Is it because you love the sport? Is it because you want to quit you day job? Knowing why you are doing it makes it easier to ask how you want to fund it because how you choose to fund it will help dictate how much you can make at funding it.
2) What does TRS radio seek to accomplish? This is not the same question of funding, but they can be related. Do you want to offer an alternative to the incestive or self aggrandizing ramblings of the rest of Triathlon? To do that you would want to be as open as possible. Do you want to move a select, like minded group of people? That can be a closed group with options for new to enter who would be willing to buy in.
3) What is your current audience? You list 4000 listeners and 70 something donors. Those donors are mostly basic level donations for a single show that is much like the other triathlon style podcasts. You also have a group who are in the Team TRS who some may give and others not, but they have "bought" into your vision with team fees. Some of that may have been for the gear, but I doubt it (I've purchased 3 other bike kits since, I can afford a tri kit). I would argue that you have three audiences (at least). The hardcore Team TRS followers, the basic level supporters (some who may be in other camps right now but still believe in you enough to offer on going support) and the ones who simply find you entertaining enough to listen to but don't give a damn about the agenda. The last group is the one you want to engage while maintaining the others.
Personally I would say that you need to know fully your vision and stop whoring yourself out to anything else but that. I can get Audible from anyone with two free books. What I cannot do currently is find a more honest group of athletes who are committed to being "good" but committed to being "real" people as well. I also can find more than enough eccentric athletes talking about their training (I've subscribed and dropped about 12 podcasts so far) but I cannot find someone who not only cares about how well someone finished a race but that they have gone through the same stuff as the rest of us out there. I cannot find someone who is willing to laugh at the stupid stuff we put ourselves through to be .05% faster than last year.
Thanks for telling us that your wife sees this thing as competition, that you can't train much because you have to be TRS or Ben H. Age Group Athlete and that you have all the realities of a real dad with a day job. You've put a metric shit ton of work into this site, this persona, this podcast, this team, etc... now tell yourself why you did that and focus on that and don't worry about some lame email about 1st world problems, like how easy it is to give someone 13 cents and broken pen.
I'm an angel with an incredible capacity for beer
Comments
Be true to who you are and what you want to do. Communicate relentlessly how you are achieving that and how others can come onboard to support that (including exactly what kind of support you need) and people will follow.
There is a church finance book but it is applicable to you here, "Not Your Parents Offering Plate." Great insights into the success of the greatest 501c3's and the reasons for the relative mediocrity of most churches in Western culture.
I'm an angel with an incredible capacity for beer
IMO I don't think that going to a pure subscription model when your reach is so limited and you are so "new" on the scene will be a good idea. It will pretty much kill any organic growth of listeners that may hear about the show through Twitter/whatever. It's the same for online/print media, if it's behind a pay-wall, the link is essentially worthless to me.
I'm sure you have a chart of the listener growth for each of your podcasts, and that curve is steadily climbing. This is likely due to the increasing quality of your guests and the "street cred" that you are accumulating over time. Now also look at where Kona falls on that chart. For better or for worse the sport of triathlon is centered around Kona, and that's where the big growth/exposure happens. On the trajectory that you're on, I could see a pretty awesome Kona'15 in the happening for TRSRadio. And I think that changing to a pay-only model would way stunt that growth.
That said, it does mean having to sell the wife on this plan, but hey, if you've done it before for triathlon races, you should be able to do it for this.
One group you're forgetting about as well is the pros. The exposure you are giving the pro triathletes is phenomenal and beyond anything currently out there. I would think/hope that some/most of them would realize this and start coming around, give you some more post-race quotes/interviews, and start pitching in to support the show as well. Prior to this past week's podcast, Ben Hoffman was just another pro with a funny name to me, but the dude is hilarious and now I care about how he does and where he races.
seems like kind of an asshole
People buy in to your concept but growth in a crowded market takes time but you have differentiation on your side.
Many have bought into TRS racing as well and stumped up a decent amount of cash to support it - what happens to their "investment" if you decide yours is not working?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Co-Host of The Triathlon Preview Show
Follow @ZachTris2Run
The preacher and others shared great points - let this thing grow and focus on the big picture. All of the little things/ideas can get in the way at times. The podcasts are improving week by week, the new site is up and gathering attention, you've got a rag tag bunch racing the TRS flag, and lots of things happening. Let these comments go.
The last thing most listeners/readers want to hear about is how little money is being made from a side-gig/hobby. That's my two cents.
The rant about quitting was only to do with the podcast. In the end, it makes little sense to switch to a pay only model because I'm still in a growth phase. Plus, the podcast and website have the potential to be synergistic.
The fact of the matter is that THAT is how I was feeling at the time I wrote that blog post. I sometimes feel that way. Other times, I am more patient and I see the bigger picture.
I need to spend some time thinking about what @PreachSwanson wrote because he is right. I do need to define for myself what the mission and vision is here so that I can stay focused.
Frankly, what I'm feeling has a lot to do with being very unsatisfied in my actual job and wishing/hoping/dreaming that I can make this into a viable business that can both impact the sport positively AND allow me to make the best use of my talents and time.
By the way, how about a special where Preach Swanson counsels me and Mark with the tape recorder running. That could drive some Patreon followers.
To my TRS Racing members, please don't feel obligated to donate to Patreon. When I get around to it, I'll post bonus content to our private forum. At least the really good stuff. The only reason I don't now is lack of time.
Quite frankly, seeing people build genuine friendships and seeing my own team members put me in check is the most gratifying aspect of this entire TRS experience. That @legalgooner article speaks to the independence and brains that you all bring to the table. I am very, very proud of what you have built.
To his point of who your groups are, I'll use myself as an example: I'm not a hardcore follower, as I've only managed to listen to probably 60min total of all the shows (life and work kind of screw that up). But, like probably every other person on this team, I'm here because this is something that I believe is good for triathlon. I'm here because I like what you're doing. And it's a mission (guh, I hate to use corporate speak, but whatever) that I want to help succeed.
I do know that I've had at least 3 people who were barely familiar with you prior to this become fans of the podcast. One doesn't even do tris. And one other person who couldn't stand you is now asking me if I heard the latest podcast each week. I don't know if they're pauing anything yet, but I know they wouldn't be listening at all if there was a paywall. And they wouldn't be TRS converts or have become interested in triathlon otherwise.
I know that's just my little n=1 anecdote. But I think I'm a pretty average example of how you're going to grow.
This is for what I preach, why I'm doing anything in life, why I accepted my last move last July... Everything!
So when you ask yourself why am I still doing TRS the easy answers are, it's fun, I like to effect change, I got to meet the worlds coolest pastor... But those are surface answers... What makes it fun, why do you want to create change. What is making you spend time in the closet trying to come out as TRS? Answer that and then you can make the kind of choices that would allow you to create not only the job you want but the life your looking for.
Call anytime.
I'm an angel with an incredible capacity for beer
You become your own shrink, in a way.
I just hope that once @TheRealStarky gets to the last "why" he still wants to keep at this
I enjoy the podcast, but it does seem like it takes up a ton of your time that you could be doing other things. I personally think you should work this website and decrease the podcasting to special cases such as Kona and the like. I have found tons of enjoyment from this new website and the articles you are bringing in. I don't want to say greater because the podcast has been great, but I'll say I enjoy the articles as much. It is way better than a website that posts pictures of bikes, how to size a bike articles, and articles about your greatest fan, Dusty Nabor.....
But really it all circles back to what you find enjoyable, if it is podcasting then do it. I would never have learned about how to use periods on twitter without your podcast, for what it's worth.
Nathan Kiser
Just FYI, you... are also less than mediocre. -TheActualPaulo
I'm glad you're enjoying the articles. Page-views are still quite low - around 2000 per day. Hopefully we get some traction soon.
If you are serious about wanting to make TRS your full time job then set some benchmarks and goals that can show you if it will become a reality. Have a good talk with your wife about it. Have a benchmark that will allow you to say, "lets do this full time now." That benchmark will likely include a pay cut at the time, but could include a betting pay in the future (as well as a much more flexible home-life if you plan it out well).
Also, as a thought, just because you turn it into a full time gig that helps to pay the bills and what not doesn't mean everyone needs to be paid for helping... Lots of us would still love to help because we care about what this movement says and can do for a sport we care about. I have the same situation with people at church, there are a few of us who are paid staffers but we have a ton of people who donate time and some at near full time levels. They don't care about the difference because in their situations, money is not the factor to keep them there. We "pay" them in support and as an outlet for their faith and that "pay" to them is worth enough to keep money off the table and "job" satisfaction and personal enjoyment on it.
I'm an angel with an incredible capacity for beer
1. I have no experience in this stuff, but at least in terms of the podcast stuff do you have a sense of what the usual Patreon conversion rate between downloads and subscribers is? If you're at the "going rate" so to speak then I guess you need to focus on growing the listenership. Going to a pay only model isn't going to help that. If the conversion rate is low, then I think you need to put a harder push on during the podcast. I know it's a bit obnoxious but given some of your stated goals above I see nothing wrong with it.
2. I think you need to be a bit more patient. 18 months ago, TheRealStarky was a parody Andrew Starykowicz Twitter account. The podcast is ~6 months old. The website's less than a month into it's refresh. Then you've got the age group team that hasn't even started racing really yet. As Big Sexy described in his interview, part of the value in that exercise is to get a bunch of guys out there racing in your kit to drum up interest.
You've made a pretty hard pivot and there really hasn't been much time for the marketing angles to all work themselves out.
3. In terms of the podcast, my humble suggestion is to focus on covering triathlon like any other pro sport, so to speak. As an example, the Claggett interview was interesting but I suspect that for many listeners it was far too inside baseball to be interesting. Part of what has drawn me (and I suspect others) to the TRS brand was its approach that elite level triathlon can be a fun and exciting sport to watch and follow and the companies that benefit from those athlete's ought to ensure they can make a living doing it. I think the podcast can best promote that vision by presenting story lines, controversies, rivalries and personalities that will allow us to follow the narratives of the season.
The other industry stuff is interesting, but it may be superfluous to that core ideal.
I'm an angel with an incredible capacity for beer
seems like kind of an asshole
I still think that stuff like the Clagett interview should have space. I thought it was great that he asked to counter your rant, and you gave him the time. If you rant on something, allowing the 'victim' to respond is pretty cool.
Anyway, my 2 cents...
Also appreciate the feedback on the content. I agree that we are sometime too inside baseball and that it could be hard to connect with as a beginner to the sport. The athlete interviews are good for beginners.
The hook is that eventually, the listener starts to feel like they're part of a radio-reality show and they connect with Mark and I on a personal level.
I didn't put it as articulately as @PreachSwanson but the email of mine that you read on the air made the same points - what's the mission? What do you want to accomplish? My take is that you've probably already accomplished what you sought to when you started out the Twitter account - to point out the stupidity and hypocrisy of triathlon's powers that be and to build a platform to shine light on your views of how things should be.
that was my point about the hilariously brutal persona of Twitter versus the more accessible version on the podcasts.
I'm with @AaronWebstey - and part of it is that I really like the interplay between TRS and @Dark_Mark - I like the Podcasts far more than anything else. Though the forum is growing on me very quickly. But the website is really good. And it's weeks old.
Do whatever you want - quit. Carry on. Pull back for a while. Whatever. I'm a supporter - I've been and will continue to be. One thought is to have the podcast be SEASONAL - and even better if it's very active in the OFF-SEASON and maybe even monthly or bi-weekly during the high part of the season (may through september). You can throw some bones to Patreons if you want. But you've got to carve back some work/life/TRS fake-life balance and you've got a three legged stool.
I'm not good at monetizing. But I'm good at Pricing. So let's talk Pricing if you want. But first do what Preach says and get your hierarchy right - then we as a community can pull together to help you accomplish your goals. You might even publish it privately among the TRS Racing team (and please some helpful Patreons like me) to both keep you held to it but as a semi-public proclamation of what you're doing.
yes a lot going on - reminds me of why my job is so complicated at the moment. And reminds me that I need a bit of soul searching and prioritizing so that I can create something at work that's greater than just putting out flames/fires all the time.
We can't define why you do this (and how often) but you can. Like I said, I'm supportive because TRS Radio is one of my absolute favorite entertainment sources at the moment. And I fundamentally believe that you have to pay for the creative. Until you've figured out that primary central piece you're going to be putting out those fires...100% reactive
getting pissed is great - it means you care. And in this case it means that something's not quite right. You'll get there. and we'll be here to help when you do.
Aspiring Team TRS (2016?) Currently East (but West via Mentality & History)
Also, I spent my afternoon and evening trying to source a virtual assistant who can help me with some tasks so I can breathe a little
It's been a grind the last few weeks getting the site up and going. In fact, I've been emailing with KOAM @AaronWebstey the last hour as we continue to tweak and refine. The dude built a Patreon Widget (see sidebar of homepage) out of thin air based on my idea to recognize and highlight my generous patrons. The fucking thing didn't exist anywhere. My man has game. Hopefully he can sell it to others like me.
Bike Crash Free Since August 4th, 2014
Aspiring Team TRS (2016?) Currently East (but West via Mentality & History)
Nothing has gotten me to question my coaching more than getting some lousy email from someone complaining or tearing you apart. Just like you, I invest time, passion, knowledge and sacrifice time from my own family with very little compensation. I don't have to coach. My family would be fine if I just taught and went about my own life, but I like to think I have more to offer. An email like that definitely makes one question if it's worth it. In my case, I usually look around and take inventory in the vast majority of parents and athletes who have appreciated what I've done for them. I've even saved certain "positive" emails, letters, notes, pics, articles, etc., to reinforce the "why it's worth it" moments. Hopefully this thread, the forum in general, TRS Racing community, bring that "this is why" thought to your head. If not, then scaling back may be in order.
One of my hardest lessons I continue to work on is that no matter hard we try we can't always make everyone happy. Some people are just insufferable pricks. I guess it's the quest in trying to make even those pricks like us or what we do is the motivation to accomplish great things. Keep up the good work!
@Scheck48