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Susan_B_Agony

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  • Stop acting like any of you know something about doping

    This was all brought about by the discussion on the podcast about "doping" (the Siri Lindley one). I don't mean any ill-will towards Ben or Joel; they are more the triggers for this rant than anything else.

    Try to think of this as a General Public Announcement/Request

    Here’s the short version: y’all don’t know shit about doping. Pursuant to this, in my opinion, if you don’t plan to do something about it, you should all just shut the hell up about doping.

    Now, the long version? Well, let me preface this with an ass-load of disclaimers.

    DISCLAIMER #1: I swear a lot. If you don’t like it, fuck off. It helps me express my feelings.

    DISCLAIMER #2: If you want to maintain your innocence about current and past sports figures, then take the blue pill. The story will end, you will wake up in your bed, and you will believe what you want to believe.

    DISCLAIMER #3: Very little that follows is what you would call “Hard Facts”. Why? Because nobody has a fucking clue about the true extent of doping activity. Think Brad Katsuyama trying to figure out how deep the electronic scalping game goes in the stock market. Nobody has a clue.

    DISCLAIMER #4: I feel very strongly about this topic. But unlike all of you, I rarely talk about it when a 'major news story breaks' because me talking about it isn’t going to do shit to resolve the issue. Still, as I have a lot of rage about doping, there may be points in the post below where my vitriol against the notion of doping overflows into my criticisms of the “outrage” of the general public. Deal with it.

    DISCLAIMER #5: I am not an expert in this. What follows is an attempt to show everyone how little they know about the topic, thus proving my main point that In general, people don't know anything on the topic and should stop acting like "discussing" is is doing any good. At the very least, you could do the bare minimum and google shit about it and learn things like, in the 60's, there was a plethora of college athletes were taking steroids. But, nobody does, because they don't give a fuck, they just want to complain about how bad it is for the sport.

    Alright. Now that everything has been disclaimed, strap the fuck in because this is a long ass post.
    ...
    Let’s begin with a thought exercise. Paula Radcliffe is the current world record holder in the women’s marathon. Her time? 2:15:25, a full three minutes ahead of the next best time EVER, which was run by Mary Keitany of Kenya… a full 11 years later.

    Paula Radcliffe has been cleared by WADA from any doping allegations and for most, the story ends here. But for others, it continues, with numerous suspicions and allegations. And that’s my point. Paula Radcliffe has run faster than any woman, even known dopers, by a large margin. To put it in perspective, using the Mercier score calculator, a woman running a 2:15:25 is somewhat equivalent to a man running a… 1:59:54.

    Now, let’s be clear; Mercier scores are an attempt to approximate equivalent times by using a statistical analysis of all performances in Athletics, blah, blah, blah, read about it via the link provided below. Anyways, this is why people think Paula’s record is so questionable. And the point of all this is to show that #1) nobody knows for sure, and #2) the entire world of doping is allegations and suspicions.

    Speaking of Hearsay, here’s the best analysis I’ve ever seen about doping. Keep this in mind, always:
    Principle #1: The cheaters are (almost) always ahead of the testers. The hardest thing for people to understand is that negative test results truly don't mean a thing. They really don't. Whether or not an athlete has never tested positive is absolutely, completely and totally irrelevant. Marion Jones passed 162 drug tests during a period of time when she was using a designer steroid, EPO and HGH.

    Principle #2: Doped up athletes are good for business. If you want to sell more tickets and attract more eyeballs to more TV sets, then doped athletes will unquestionably help your bottom line. It is also true of governing bodies. As I have posted before, our own governing body performed pre-testing prior to the 1984 Olympic Trials and Olympics in order to aid our own athletes and avoiding detection

    Principle #3: You should never be surprised by who tests positive. The most surprising thing about a positive test is that someone actually slipped up and got caught. The very best quote I've ever seen regarding this point was by KevinM when he said in reference to Floyd Landis that "When the Amish kid tests positive, no one can be above suspicion."

    Principle #4: Cheaters are extremely skilled liars

    Principle #5: I can't define it but I know it when I see it. (author’s note: these are the OP’s words, not mine. He/She is more involved in this sort of culture)

    Principle #6: Logic means nothing, and everything. This is the part that most people can't get past. They apply logic to PEDs ("it doesn't make sense that they would use PEDs because . . .") PED use doesn't conform to our logic.
    See all of this text? Yeah, this is about 1/100th of what the OP had written on the topic. I had to cut it down for brevity’s sake-there's no way I could have explained it all in any concise way. This is more to my point. You all don’t have a clue. I have recorded what amounts to a lake of research on this topic and it won’t even scratch the surface of the ocean of truth that’s still out there. But, from here on out, think back to these principles. If you want to know who's doping and who's not. Which is nearly everybody in a sport that pays actual good money.

    That being said, you all heard the Babbitt interview with victor conte, right? Wow, what a jarring revelation! How has all that been kept so secret for so long? Good thing you listened to the podcast- You all must know so much about the doping life, right? Everything has been revealed, right?

    If you answered “Yes” to the above, let me tell you about who Angel Heredia is. Angel was a man just like Victor Conte, except even more prolific. And just like Victor Conte, nobody’s asking him for advice, of which he has plenty. For instance, he gave this interview in 2008.

    - SPIEGEL: With Marion Jones ...

    Heredia: ... it was about the recovery phases. In 2000 she competed in one event after another, and she needed to relax. I gave her epo, growth hormone, adrenaline injections, insulin. Insulin helps after training, together with protein drinks: insulin transports protein and minerals more quickly through the cell membrane.
    ...

    - Heredia: With precision. You want an example? Everyone talks about epo. Epo is fashionable. But without adding iron, epo only works half as well. That’s the kind of thing you have to know. There are oxygen carriers that make epo work incredibly fast – they are actually better than epo alone. I call my drug “Epo Boost.” I inject it and it releases many tiny oxygen molecules throughout the body. In that way you increase the effect of epo by a factor of ten.

    - Heredia: Oh yes, of course. There are tablets for the kidneys that block the metabolites of steroids, so when athletes give a urine sample, they don’t excrete the metabolites and thus test negative. Or there is an enzyme that slowly consumes proteins - epo has protein structures, and the enzyme thus ensures that the B sample of the doping test has a completely different value than the A sample. Then there are chemicals that you take a couple of hours before the race that prevent acidification in the muscles. Together with epo they are an absolute miracle. I’ve created 20 different drugs that are still undetectable for the doping testers.
    ...

    Heredia: It’s a small world. It gets around who can provide you with something how quickly and at what price, who is discreet. The coaches approached me and asked if I could help them, and I said: yes. Then they gave me money, $15,000 or thereabouts, we got a first shipment and then we did business. At some point it led to one-on-one cooperation with the athletes.
    ...

    SPIEGEL: Was there a regimen of sorts?

    Heredia: Yes. I always combined several things. For example, I had one substance called actovison that increased blood circulation – not detectable. That was good from a health standpoint and even better from a competitive standpoint. Then we had the growth factors IGF-1 and IGF-2. And epo. Epo increases the number of red blood cells and thus the transportation of oxygen, which is the key for every athlete: the athlete wants to recover quickly, keep the load at a constantly high level and achieve a constant performance.

    SPIEGEL: Once again: a constant performance at the world-class level is unthinkable without doping?

    ...

    SPIEGEL: Testosterone, growth hormone, epo – that was your combination?

    Heredia: Yes, with individual variations. And then amazing things are possible. In 2002 Jerome Young was ranked number 38 in the 400 meters. Then we began to work together, and in 2003 he won almost every big race.

    SPIEGEL: How were you paid?

    Heredia: I had an annual wage. For big wins I got a $40,000 bonus.

    SPIEGEL: Your athletes have won 26 Olympic medals. How much money did you earn?

    Heredia: I can’t answer that due to the investigations. But let’s put it this way: 16 to 18 successful athletes each year at between $15,000 and $20,000 per athlete. I had a good run. I had a good life.

    ...


    SPIEGEL: Is there doping at every level of athletics?

    Heredia: Yes, the only difference is the quality of the doping. Athletes with little money use simple steroids and hope they don’t get tested. The stars earn 50,000 dollars a month, not including starting bonuses and shoe sponsorship contracts. The very best invest 100,000 dollars – I’ll then build you a designer drug that can’t be detected.

    SPIEGEL: Explain how this works.

    Heredia: Designer drugs are composed of several different chemicals that trigger the desired reaction. At the end of the chain I change one or two molecules in such a way that the entire structure is undetectable for the doping testers.
    ...

    So, let’s revisit my favorite question. You still think you know something about all this?

    Which leads me to my problem with all this discussion of “Doping”. It’s similar to my problem with all the discussion of the “Human rights violations!”, “TriEquality!” and any other topic that results in a public outrage. This shit has been sitting under your noses, easily accessible to anyone with internet access and knowledge of google, for YEARS. But, the only time anyone ever cares about it is when it reaches international attention. Then, everybody looses their minds! They're outraged!

    Being outraged doesn’t do shit. You, expressing your distaste on twitter, contributes fuckall to solving the problem. With your right hand and a basket full of outraged tweets in the other, you could probably jerk off. Unless you’re a lefty. What happened to all the vitriol against Bahrain 13? What happened to the entire TriEqual movement? Why did it suddenly disappear? I'll tell you why: it faded away because people don't actually give enough of a shit to do something about it.
    TriEqual is actually a bit of an exception to this, because they made an organization about it, but nothing's really happened since.

    The amazing thing is, as I alluded to above, if you know where to look, or you know how to use a google search bar, this shit isn’t even hard to find. There are actual published articles in magazines that document peoples’ journeys taking PEDs and their experiences. With a little bit of searching, you can find out that steroids are very useful for endurance athletes, most athletes are on HGH (which is mostly undetectable), and that by taking 100mg of test (or, testosterone for all you noobs) per week will put most men in the upper quartile of the normal range.

    This means that people can take testosterone, it helps them recover, and they will not test positive.
    If you literally copied and pasted the underlined portion above, it will lead you to a body-building forum post that will describe, in detail, how to do this.

    Even more to the point: Ever heard of micro dosing? Ever heard of IGF-1? What’s Dynepo? What’s Actovegin? Dianabol? Winstrol?

    And even if you have heard about these, and understand their context in doping, you’re still behind the curve. It is very much like Wall Street shenanigans. You only hear about and come to understand the latest shady deals after the perpetrators have moved on to the next best thing. Some cycling teams have been found with experimental drugs that haven’t even been completely studied in clinical trials.

    So let me ask again. What exactly are you achieving when you talk about doping? Because from where I’m sitting, all I see is cocktail party conversation and wasting of time. This information is easily available for those that look for it and nobody is looking for it because they don't care. You seriously think Adrian Peterson can come back from tearing an ACL and rush 2000+ yards without the help of drugs? Do you think that the NFL doesn't know about this? They and the fans want gladiators.

    So! What are the morals of this story?

    MORAL #1: UNLESS YOU PLAN TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, SHUT THE FUCK UP.

    MORAL #2: PEOPLE CHEAT IN CROSS-COUNTRY-FUCK-SKIING. YOU CAN’T STOP IT.

    MORAL #3: PEOPLE JUST WANT TO COMPLAIN ABOUT IT. ACTUALLY DOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT WOULD LIKELY INCONVENIENCE THEM.

    And this last point is probably why this post will wither and die/flamed into oblivion. Because in addition to not actually wanting to do something about it, people don’t like the truth to be shoved in their faces. But as long as you get to complain about it, I reserve the right to yell at you all to shut up.

    Link to Mercier Scoring for those who give a shit: http://myweb.lmu.edu/jmureika/track/Mercier/Merc99.html .

    MattAaron Websteydrffishmantwig05
  • Sara Gross joins Bahrain 13

    Why do triathletes have to explain their sponsorship choices to anyone?

    Would there be this same level of scrutiny of roka Athletes if roka wetsuits were made in sweatshops? Or if trek was widely know to have a culture of sexual harassment against women?

    Why isn't Helle being questioned about Nike's dubious manufacturing practices? Or, do we only care about questioning the obvious ones?

    Neither Roka or Trek do these things, but let's pretend. I'm interested in why people think they are owed anything from professionals, let alone an "explanation"
    ShepherdJackTheLadKLassmanDHansenTri
  • Zibi Responds to Allegations of Failure to Pay Challenge Florida Athletes



    Anyways, @Uli, why didn't you say that in the first place
    Dude, I did.
    ....yeah, just re- read the thread. Still not seeing it. Saw that you were appalled, but yeah. I believe you though.

    idking90
  • USAT Nationals in Omaha? Really?

    Well, whatever the case, I have an amazing idea for USA Triathlon. Here it goes:

    First off, let's have cities put together bids for hosting the National tri meet. thing. race. whatever. Okay, then, let's switch it up, and choose cities that are not normally visited by people. Hear me out here--if we invite a couple thousand triathletes and get them to spend the weekend, both we and the host city can benefit! We benefit because of a great race with two thousand of our best friends and the city benefits because of the economic impact of people coming to the city to spend money that would not otherwise happen because its not one of the usual destinations for travelers!

    What do you think?
    mbrekk44Tad_M
  • Critique my plan

    Sounds like the ultra secret 24-18-12-6 challenge. Match an activity with a number and complete all of them in 24hrs. Activities: donuts, miles(run), beers, pleasuring yourself.

    e.g: 24 miles run, 18 beers, 12 donuts, 6 times stroking the twinkie
    Fuck, reverse the activities and that's an exact copy of my day today.
    24- gun salute, 18 donuts, 12 beers, and 6 miles
    Aaron Webstey
  • USAT Nationals in Omaha? Really?

    Yeah, because Milwaukee was sooo awesome.
    Probably in my top 5 US cities and I've visited or lived in a ton.
    FOR the record: Milwaukee is good but not great.

    And what's wrong with going to Omaha? Got me some damn fine steaks from those Wonderful bastards on numerous occasions. Sounds to me that someone needs to take a nap to settle down.

    You have to fly there? Boo hoo! At least you can afford a plane ticket and a decent room
    idking90
  • WTC Forfeits $2.7 Million Over Kona Lottery

    Do you need help to win the powerball of $1.3 billion which is on board now? Am A spell caster who can render help and make you became rich and famous by winning the powerball. If you need help you can contact me ASAP on email: isuenuhomeofhelpandsolutions@hotmail.com or call me on: +27619432474

    Great Isuenu.
    Lol WTF? Bumping this because it's hilarious. The English is awful. You're a spellcaster? Do tell
    simonsen77
  • Run Tights

    Compression shorts til 40deg F
    Comp+ pants til 20deg F
    Tights and pants til 0deg F
    Inside below zero. Not worth it
    OverBiker_Sam
  • Powerball winnings - what would you do?

    Buy TRS, make webstey the queen of all technology. That, or a leveraged buyout of ironman and demote the current CEO to being my secretary or something
    Aaron Webstey
  • Feedback regarding new TRS Radio format.

    Felt like the new format cramped the old style a little and ruined the conversational flow just a bit. Barrie's "ITU minute" was great- maybe someone else can come in for a long course one?

    Music was good, though
    Yes, when you change something, the thing that it used to be is no longer the same.
    This... This intrigues me. Can you explain this further?

    But for real, @Mattpatt brings up a good point. Knowing about the Olympic qualification standards also helps the fans follow the sport. If I know Greg billington needs to get 15th to make it, I'll be more involved.

    I think the same could be said for the long course pros- regular KPR updates may help people be more involved in the season < /idea. >

    May be an area of journalism you can look into to feed the content monster for the website
    GasBomb

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