frame

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Sign In Register

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Starting immediately, all new users must be approved by a moderator (due to spam issues). #sworry
You can dismiss this message by clicking the little 'X' in the top right this box.
If you are a pro triathlete, please click here to DM AaronWebstey for access to the 'Pros-only' private forum. Don't forget to include your real name, and a link to pro race result would be great if you're a 1st-year pro.

The bad question, why do people cheat?

PreachSwansonPreachSwanson Member, Rooster Endurance Member, Rooster Endurance Officers
Okay, first off, lets leave "Professional" racers out of this. There is money involved and shit happens when money gets involved.

Now, we race and all there is, is some worthless coffee mug as a trophy for placing. So why do you think people take the time and effort to cheat at a race?

I heard a good thoughtful conversation on it recently and I wonder what your thoughts are on it.

So why do people do it?
TRS Racing
I'm an angel with an incredible capacity for beer
Aaron WebsteyMartinKenElPescadoPeladoMamaCheetah
«1

Comments

  • Options
    genesis 3, preach :)
    MamaCheetah


    unofficial non-general counsel for TRS Racing and other TRS-related entities
  • Options
    but also, i'd imagine it's to get to Kona (which is kind of a bucket list), feelings of self worth, and also to hit some arbitrary goal - for example, to get to sub 5 hours on a half ironman or go sub 10 at a full.


    unofficial non-general counsel for TRS Racing and other TRS-related entities
  • Options
    Ego
    wchevronAaron WebsteyMartinEvanrangamelfyrehaarShepherdMamaCheetah

    Fattest BQ on record--- *allegedly
    2016 (and last) Rev3 Cedar Point champ- don't google the time though
  • Options
    StruangStruang Member, POTM
    Evan said:

    but also, i'd imagine it's to get to Kona (which is kind of a bucket list), feelings of self worth, and also to hit some arbitrary goal - for example, to get to sub 5 hours on a half ironman or go sub 10 at a full.

    Are you suggesting it's expensive to enter 12 races so you get in via the legacy programme?
    Aaron WebsteyEvanrigpigKenElPescadoPeladoMamaCheetah
  • Options
    Tad_MTad_M Member, Rooster Endurance Member, Level 2 Supporter, POTM
    Small kickstands
    M_WarePreachSwansonAaron WebsteykjrunninMartinwchevronJohns622KenElPescadoPeladoMamaCheetah
    visit Michigan July 19th to 24th 2023 - The Sworry Trials Impossibleman and Ode to Laz
    https://www.facebook.com/sworrytrials/
    https://www.facebook.com/OdetoLaz/
  • Options
    PreachSwansonPreachSwanson Member, Rooster Endurance Member, Rooster Endurance Officers
    I'm also not really worried about the DB's trying for Kona (not that all of them are, just the cheating kind). But why cut your local half marathon or sit in the shitter to come in second at some off branded race. I see it, people report it and I just don't know how it actually feeds their ego without it killing the conscious
    Aaron WebsteyGranpa ChookJohns622fyrehaarMamaCheetah
    TRS Racing
    I'm an angel with an incredible capacity for beer
  • Options
    Aaron WebsteyAaron Webstey Administrator, Rooster Endurance Member, Rooster Endurance Officers
    Some people have a void inside that will never be filled. Cheating just shortens the path to their next disappointment. It's a sad and piteous existence.
    Granpa ChookrangamelJames LangefyrehaarKenElPescadoPeladoMamaCheetahIanL
    #KOAT
  • Options
    I would imagine there's a difference between a person who dopes but completes a full IM and a person who cuts the course at a marathon, for example.
    kjrunninEvanMartinJohns622
  • Options
    kjrunninkjrunnin Member, Rooster Endurance Member, Level 2 Supporter
    I do think there’s a difference between those who dope and the course cutters. When the Julie Miller shit hit the fan, I concluded that it’s not about the win (since she knew she didn’t win) but that she must get a thrill out of planning and successfully executing the deception.
    wchevronMartinGranpa ChookAaron WebsteyRobert RankinPreachSwansondhrTad_MfyrehaarKenElPescadoPeladoMamaCheetah

  • Options
    MartinMartin Member, Rooster Endurance Member
    edited February 2018
    dhr said:

    I would imagine there's a difference between a person who dopes but completes a full IM and a person who cuts the course at a marathon, for example.

    Nope. Both DBs, just with slightly different motivation. And risk of being caught.
  • Options
    Some good answers on here! Let's be real, people cheat on all kinds of things. Taxes, spouses, traffic laws, diets, business, whatever. Of course there is a massive differences between jay-walking and taking epo to win your shitty age-group in a sport nobody cares about.

    That takes a good deal of rationalization, cognitive dissonance, win-at-all-costs, narcissism etc. They are definitely lacking some psychological needs as well.
    Aaron WebsteyJohns622MamaCheetah
  • Options
    If you are curious, a decent read unpacking the social and psychological aspects of cheating : http://www.scienceofrunning.com/2015/09/psychology-of-doping-why-were-fighting.html
    Aaron WebsteyM_WarebbculpMamaCheetah
  • Options
    idking90idking90 Member, Pro Triathlete
    Honestly? Humans are capable of being, and often are pretty terrible. I understand how it's ever so slightly easier to rationalize the crappy behavior of people who live off mom and dad make a living doing the sport, but that's probably intellectually lazy and not as relevant as we might like to think. I'm not sure it's all that different. As much as we want to think athletic endeavors are different and pure, they really aren't any different from the rest of life. If anything, the more tangible outcomes available (one of the major selling points of athletics as a hobby!) make the incentive to cheat greater than most other aspects of life.
    People do awful things, from being terribly rude to strangers on dating apps, to lying on taxes, to cutting the course in an Ironman, to cheating on their spouses, to knowingly spreading false information that conforms with their own weltanschauung (take that Germanization, BPF).
    I think it's always been that way, people being awful. The difference it's just that now it's easier to leave our own little bubbles, both because it's easier to actually leave one's own bubble, and oversharing makes people send a lot more things outside their bubbles to be heard, intentionally or inadvertently. Sometimes intentionally publicize negative things they're actually anonymous, sometimes they think they're anonymous and then get found out, and other times because they're just straight up sociopaths who now have a voice because somebody accidentally stumbles on their tweet or comment or share, where previously nobody would have ever seen or heard from them.
    Don't take this as me being nihilist, cynical, pessimistic...or whatever else you want to call it. I still actually do believe people are generally good, but I'm also just not surprised when anybody is terrible. Maybe the lesson here is that people can be good, but no human is to be held to such a significantly higher standard because, well, we're human (I don't intend for that last statement to come out as a religious angle, but it's probably reworkable into one if you need something after the next high-profile scandal, @PreachSwanson ;) )
    Aaron WebsteyPreachSwansonMattMamaCheetah
  • Options
    kjrunnin said:

    I do think there’s a difference between those who dope and the course cutters. When the Julie Miller shit hit the fan, I concluded that it’s not about the win (since she knew she didn’t win) but that she must get a thrill out of planning and successfully executing the deception.

    I think a lot of people don’t care that they know they didn’t win, they just want others to think they won.

    Aaron WebsteyM_WareJennifer PostTad_MMamaCheetah

    Fattest BQ on record--- *allegedly
    2016 (and last) Rev3 Cedar Point champ- don't google the time though
  • Options
    Aaron WebsteyAaron Webstey Administrator, Rooster Endurance Member, Rooster Endurance Officers
    idking90 said:

    Honestly? Humans are capable of being, and often are pretty terrible. I understand how it's ever so slightly easier to rationalize the crappy behavior of people who live off mom and dad make a living doing the sport, but that's probably intellectually lazy and not as relevant as we might like to think. I'm not sure it's all that different. As much as we want to think athletic endeavors are different and pure, they really aren't any different from the rest of life. If anything, the more tangible outcomes available (one of the major selling points of athletics as a hobby!) make the incentive to cheat greater than most other aspects of life.
    People do awful things, from being terribly rude to strangers on dating apps, to lying on taxes, to cutting the course in an Ironman, to cheating on their spouses, to knowingly spreading false information that conforms with their own weltanschauung (take that Germanization, BPF).
    I think it's always been that way, people being awful. The difference it's just that now it's easier to leave our own little bubbles, both because it's easier to actually leave one's own bubble, and oversharing makes people send a lot more things outside their bubbles to be heard, intentionally or inadvertently. Sometimes intentionally publicize negative things they're actually anonymous, sometimes they think they're anonymous and then get found out, and other times because they're just straight up sociopaths who now have a voice because somebody accidentally stumbles on their tweet or comment or share, where previously nobody would have ever seen or heard from them.
    Don't take this as me being nihilist, cynical, pessimistic...or whatever else you want to call it. I still actually do believe people are generally good, but I'm also just not surprised when anybody is terrible. Maybe the lesson here is that people can be good, but no human is to be held to such a significantly higher standard because, well, we're human (I don't intend for that last statement to come out as a religious angle, but it's probably reworkable into one if you need something after the next high-profile scandal, @PreachSwanson ;) )

    "Top 6 Reasons Why Cheaters Do What They Do"
    Johns622idking90
    #KOAT
  • Options
    1: Because they're pricks
    2: Because they think that they can get away with it
    3: Because they think that if they're thinking about cheating, others are too and doing it
    4: Because life is unfair for them and others have unfair advantages: better genetics, better training, better kit and it's levelling the playing field

    But mainly 1
    James Langesimonsen77PreachSwansonMamaCheetah
  • Options
    Zach MillerZach Miller Member, Rooster Endurance Member, POTM
    @PreachSwanson was this conversation started by the mountain outhouse videos?
  • Options
    idking90idking90 Member, Pro Triathlete
    @AaronWebstey sorry, no more listicles from me now that I'm doing a grad degree in IT. I'm available to take over as Prince of All Technology, though. Here's my portfolio:
    http://www.business.colostate.edu/cis665/SP18King.idking/HTMLHomeworks/HTMLcssassgt/home.html
    Aaron Webstey
  • Options
    Tad_MTad_M Member, Rooster Endurance Member, Level 2 Supporter, POTM
    1 through 4: They lack self image to the point they feel advertising a better finishing time/position in triathlon helps them gain the respect and affirmation of others.
    5. They were inadvertently locked in Webstey's office once.
    6: something to do with #1-4 or #5.
    PreachSwansonAaron Webstey
    visit Michigan July 19th to 24th 2023 - The Sworry Trials Impossibleman and Ode to Laz
    https://www.facebook.com/sworrytrials/
    https://www.facebook.com/OdetoLaz/
  • Options
    PreachSwansonPreachSwanson Member, Rooster Endurance Member, Rooster Endurance Officers
    nope, a running podcast I just listened to while working in the garage

    @PreachSwanson was this conversation started by the mountain outhouse videos?

    TRS Racing
    I'm an angel with an incredible capacity for beer
  • Options
    M_WareM_Ware Member, Rooster Endurance Member, Level 2 Supporter
    @PreachSwanson apparently they dope in order to win bronze medals in curling. https://n.pr/2HrZPs9
    Tad_M
    Keeper of the Cowbell
    Queen of All Donut Awards
    Groovy Auntie to Roosters everywhere
  • Options

    1 through 4: They lack self image to the point they feel advertising a better finishing time/position in triathlon helps them gain the respect and affirmation of others.
    5. They were inadvertently locked in Webstey's office once.
    6: something to do with #1-4 or #5.

    re: 5 - was Webstey in there at the time? Mental scars for sure.
    StruangTad_MCraig_DAaron Webstey
  • Options
    Aaron WebsteyAaron Webstey Administrator, Rooster Endurance Member, Rooster Endurance Officers
    idking90 said:

    @AaronWebstey sorry, no more listicles from me now that I'm doing a grad degree in IT. I'm available to take over as Prince of All Technology, though. Here's my portfolio:
    http://www.business.colostate.edu/cis665/SP18King.idking/HTMLHomeworks/HTMLcssassgt/home.html

    Fan fucking tastic!
    idking90
    #KOAT
  • Options
    bbculpbbculp Member, Rooster Endurance Member
    @Robert Rankin nailed it. Ego is all it is. An age-grouper who is doping is lacking something in his or her life. Boasting about his or her triathlon accomplishments to friends/family/coworkers is a drug that temporarily treats those symptoms. It releases a dopamine rush. But in the long term, it will make thing much worse. Someone like Kevin Moats has some serious personal demons that he'll likely never be able to exorcise.
    Robert RankinM_WareMartinAaron WebsteyPreachSwansonTad_M
  • Options
    Aaron WebsteyAaron Webstey Administrator, Rooster Endurance Member, Rooster Endurance Officers
    bbculp said:

    @Robert Rankin nailed it. Ego is all it is. An age-grouper who is doping is lacking something in his or her life. Boasting about his or her triathlon accomplishments to friends/family/coworkers is a drug that temporarily treats those symptoms. It releases a dopamine rush. But in the long term, it will make thing much worse. Someone like Kevin Moats has some serious personal demons that he'll likely never be able to exorcise.

    "What Webstey said, but less terrible"
    Martin
    #KOAT
  • Options
    bbculpbbculp Member, Rooster Endurance Member
    I don't read your posts @AaronWebstey
    Aaron WebsteyMartinidking90Tad_M
  • Options
    Aaron WebsteyAaron Webstey Administrator, Rooster Endurance Member, Rooster Endurance Officers
    bbculp said:

    I don't read your posts @AaronWebstey

    I would have even less respect for you if you did
    idking90Tad_M
    #KOAT
  • Options
    KenElPescadoPeladoKenElPescadoPelado Member, Rooster Endurance Member
    Skimming around the USADA and USAT sites today after hearing that a buddy's former coach got popped for PEDs. Couldn't find any sign of the guy still coaching, but what I did find is the coach I want if I ever go into professional eating!


    Aaron WebsteyCraig_DJohns622
    Sometimes I tweet... Follow PescadoPelado

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file

The Roost

@ 2018 The Triathlon Roost, All rights reserved.

Contact us

webstey@triroost.com

Get In Touch