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Just W/KG or am I an aero brick?

RashRash Member
edited May 20 in Main
I did a duathlon yesterday. 12 mile ride tucked between 2x2mile runs. The bike was 3 laps and each lap had two short (under 45 seconds), punchy climbs and one longer descent. Looking at my buddies data vs mine, it seems like I should have gone faster on the bike looking at power numbers:

Friend: 165lbs, 23 mph ave speed, 240 watts average power, 267 normalized power
Me: 190 lbs, 21.7 mph ave speed, 310 watt average power, 304 normalized power

Understanding the contributing differences/margins of error in the PM's (his a Pioneer/mine P1's), does that look all that out of whack to any of you? I am really just looking for excuses to say it's not the weight so I can keep eating like a monster. The Norm Watt/KG is basically even between the two.

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    Granpa ChookGranpa Chook Member
    edited May 20
    Doesn't look that out of whack because it depends a lot on the CDA of each position, the differences in the bikes, the pacing of the event and how much/little you both suck. My guess based on that limited data is that your position is bad and his is ok, and he did those hills (and the descent?) better. Sure, if you put your 310 avg watts into a .220 cda, or even an average cda, you'd go fast, but that doesn't mean you will be putting out 310 when you actually get in that position.

    Who ran better?

    Also his power meter could be a lot more accurate than the P1s. So you are likely seeing an inflated value there.
    Rash
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    KHilgendorfKHilgendorf Member, Rooster Endurance Member, POTM
    Or his pioneer could be reading 30W low. Only way to know would be to use them simultaneously and compare.

    Overall, I would say he's probably a better cyclist than you (obviously because he went faster) because he hit the hills harder and applied less power on the downs, as implied by the greater variability in AP to NP - I dont know where your numbers came from, AP should be less than NP. Watts matter more on the uphill than they do coming down.
    Rash
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    RashRash Member
    He's a multiple time national champion triathlete/duathlete who can throw down a sub 4:30 mile at age 47 and at 165 lbs (5lbs over his race weight) has an FTP right around 360. To say he ran better than me would be an understatement. I just started running again after taking a "small" break from running October - mid April. He has been running 40-50 mpw for the past 15 years. If all I did was the first 2 mile run I couldn't beat him.

    Anyway, I think he ran 5:30's the first 2 miles then probably 5:45-5:50's the last two. There is a huge hill to run up on each run which brought me to a crawl both times. That said, I was quite surprised and happy with 6:30's the first two and 6:54's the second two. I was a distant third overall and believe it or not he was a distant second overall because an all-american level cross country runner (and phenomenal college aged triathlete) showed up and cruised sub 5:00's then put almost 2 minutes into him on the bike despite having only ridden a bike 3 times since December.

    My fit was by Jim Manton at ERO. Think his fit is from Steimenz. Hopefully it's that my fit is good and his is great - otherwise we both need refunds. I have no doubt he rode it smarter because he is really good usually at pacing and I am really good at .erg mode!

    Anyway, appears to be not too out of the ordinary.
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    RashRash Member
    @KHilgendorf He is a better triathlon/duathlon cyclist than I am for sure. I don't have any doubts there.

    I was actually assuming his power meter must be reading low as well and he just told me he only had his left crank arm reading during the race. That likely explains a big part of it because I am sure he is right leg dominant (like most) and therefore was actually putting down more than 2x his left.

    As for AP/NP - I am usually pretty close between the two. Not sure what that means - is that not ideal?

    Anyway, thanks for the feedback. I am a poor cyclist (and could stand to lose some weight). Got it.
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    MattMatt Member, Administrator, Rooster Endurance Member
    W/Kg matters more on the climbs. W/CdA is more applicable in this case. And the condition of your drivetrain and tire choice too.
    Rash
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    KHilgendorfKHilgendorf Member, Rooster Endurance Member, POTM
    Rash said:

    @KHilgendorf He is a better triathlon/duathlon cyclist than I am for sure. I don't have any doubts there.

    I was actually assuming his power meter must be reading low as well and he just told me he only had his left crank arm reading during the race. That likely explains a big part of it because I am sure he is right leg dominant (like most) and therefore was actually putting down more than 2x his left.

    Anyway, thanks for the feedback. I am a poor cyclist (and could stand to lose some weight). Got it.

    You're far from a poor cyclist. Your mate just rode faster, with part of that likely due to where he applied power vs. where you did. For most triathlon situations, especially long course, a low VI (difference between NP and AP) is good. But it's not necessarily the fastest, overall, or the best choice for short rides where going easy on the uphold and powering down only results a slower overall time.

    Re his power meter, even if he is right dominant, there is little chance it's more than a 5% difference, so I wouldn't expect real numbers to be more than about 10-12W higher than what he got.
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    RashRash Member
    Good to know on AP/NP - that is what I assumed, but it makes sense on a short, punchy course like this that a different tactic would be better. The funny part is that when we do group rides, he really suffers because he can't handle the surging that roadies do - he just wants to lock in at a certain w/kg and he just holds it forever. However, in this case he was so far under his threshold and it was so short it didn't really matter so I assume he attacked the climbs pretty hard.
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    MartinMartin Member, Rooster Endurance Member

    I dont know where your numbers came from, AP should be less than NP.

    I was confused by this as well, but this article on TP sheds some light. Sounds like NP is not very useful for shorter rides, and maybe less so when there is a lot of variability on the ride because of hills, etc.:
    https://help.trainingpeaks.com/hc/en-us/articles/218243287-Why-is-my-normalized-power-lower-than-my-average-power-


    Rash
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    Mark_after_DarkMark_after_Dark Member, Rooster Endurance Member, Rooster Endurance Officers, POTM
    If his FTP is 360, then he severely underbiked. For a 12 mile bike, he should have been pretty close to that, unless his power meter is just not reading right.
    AaronWebstey
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    RashRash Member
    We rode pretty hard on Saturday (day before) and it was a very low key race for him - really for everyone considering only about 20 people showed up. He couldn't beat the kid in front of him and he had no one behind him to push him. He did underbike, but it was really just a training day with some intensity on the runs. I think he was almost 4 minutes behind 1st and I was roughly 3.5 minutes behind him.

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