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What's up with The Collins Cup (Pro Triathlon Org) tweets?

Jennifer PostJennifer Post Member, Rooster Endurance Member, Level 2 Supporter
Is anyone following The Collins Cup on Twitter? They've started tweeting really bad charts with data points that aren't even related and they don't provide any data sources to back up these claims. I am hoping it's parody or they been hacked. If these are serious pros seriously trying to justify their value to WTC they are nuts.

Check out this claim. A $500k reduction is Pro prize purse drives a $10m increase in WTC market value.



My favorite though is this chart that claims WTC Pros get 3% of WTC revenues whereas NFL Pros get 60% of NFL revenue. You know, why not compare a spectator sport with an endurance event with revenue generated by AG participants?


Comments

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    KHilgendorfKHilgendorf Member, Rooster Endurance Member, POTM
    I can make an argument for 500k per year increasing the stock by 10m. Simple perpetuity formula with a discount rate of 5%.
    MattMartin
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    MattMatt Member, Administrator, Rooster Endurance Member
    edited February 13
    Less money going to Pros = more money in the coffers.
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    Jennifer PostJennifer Post Member, Rooster Endurance Member, Level 2 Supporter
    Sure. I get the basic idea behind reducing expenses to increase return. But to claim $500k reduction instantly drives a $10m increase in market value? Seems a bit far-fetched.

    It also is an odd point to share if your goal is to demonstrate value of Pros. If true, why highlight the value of cutting Pro prize purse? Instead, PTO should focus on showing the value Pros drive to WTC bottom line and/or market value.

    AaronWebsteyNHetro
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    MartinMartin Member, Rooster Endurance Member

    I can make an argument for 500k per year increasing the stock by 10m. Simple perpetuity formula with a discount rate of 5%.

    That's a very optimistic discount rate for triathlon, but it's in line with China-driven valuations.
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    idking90idking90 Member, Pro Triathlete
    I’d honestly forgotten about the PTO/Collins Cup. Going to that Twitter feed, it seems they’ve punted the inaugural Collins Cup now until 2020.
    This is after the PTU formed in 2015, announced the Collins Cup in 17 to occur in 2018, and I guess at some point pushed that to 2019.
    It’s just interesting that they haven’t given up yet.
    AaronWebstey
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    bbculpbbculp Member, Rooster Endurance Member
    There is a zero percent chance the Collins Cup ever takes place.
    Martinidking90AaronWebsteyJennifer PostKenElPescadoPelado
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    KHilgendorfKHilgendorf Member, Rooster Endurance Member, POTM
    @Jennifer Post The finance side of things takes into account that this will be an annual reduction in prize money of 500k, so over the life of the company, that will result in a much larger increase in the current valuation of IM as a company (a simple approach would be to think of this as 500k more in their pockets each year for 20 years, but that is very over-simplified - the actual PV change would be due to a number of factors, and could actually go down if revenues decrease more than 500k annually due to boycotting or otherwise). I could argue that in the US, assuming IM doesn't disappear in the next 40 or so years, the NPV of this change is $18.6M (discount rate of 2.68% based on yesterday's 10 year treasury) or that it's closer to $5M (discount of 10% based on nature and riskiness of the business and Chinese investments in general). All this means is that the PTO isn't completely off base with their $10M number.

    Now, whether they actually took into account all the potential scenarios and ran some monte carlo simulation, or just came up with a number out of their ass is unknown to me.

    But yeah, their argument regarding payouts vs. revenues is definitely not relevant.
    Jennifer PostKenElPescadoPelado
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    Jennifer PostJennifer Post Member, Rooster Endurance Member, Level 2 Supporter
    idking90 said:

    I’d honestly forgotten about the PTO/Collins Cup. Going to that Twitter feed, it seems they’ve punted the inaugural Collins Cup now until 2020.
    This is after the PTU formed in 2015, announced the Collins Cup in 17 to occur in 2018, and I guess at some point pushed that to 2019.
    It’s just interesting that they haven’t given up yet.

    I couldn’t remember when they kicked off PTU which became PTO and now just rebranded The Collins Cup. I had to laugh at one of the comments on Twitter about it being vaporware.

    I just feel for the long-course Pros. They are their own worst enemies. They lost at least a year due to arguments over the use of “Union” when they first launched.

    I even contributed $100 at some point when they were asking for fans to support. Just can’t recall if that was for PTU/PTO or Shoemaker’s earlier attempt at a union. I was always curious if they ended up with more fans supporting their efforts than athletes.

    All I know is that every time I visit Dick’s, I think about all the long-course Pros that would be making better money serving burgers.
    KenElPescadoPeladoAaronWebsteyMartin
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    idking90idking90 Member, Pro Triathlete
    @Jennifer Post “pro” triathlon is really just musician, artist, any other passion-driven hobby that turns into a job. Very, very few people truly do make money at it, and only the very best in the world make their best possible income doing it. If you look at it like that, then the spectrum of side job funding, “hobby pros” like myself and @maggieru who have virtually no intention of ever quitting our primary careers, and the parent-funded athletes all make a lot more sense. Parallels to those statuses are all plentiful in the world of art and music, if that makes sense.
    AaronWebsteyJennifer PostKenElPescadoPeladoTad_Mjrielley1406maggieruRobert Rankin
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    Jennifer PostJennifer Post Member, Rooster Endurance Member, Level 2 Supporter
    @idking90 Makes sense. The few “Pros” I know are just people that are fast and like to race in first wave ahead of slow AGers and pay only a small annual fee and get homestays. They do it to save money, not earn it.

    I do think short-course pros are more like pros in other sports though since the top tier WTS athletes do seem to have triathlon as their job. The tie to Olympics and natl fed funding makes a difference.
    AaronWebsteyKenElPescadoPeladoidking90
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    idking90idking90 Member, Pro Triathlete
    I still think you’d be surprised just how many even WTS-level athletes are flying around the world in their squad environments funded by mom and dad or credit card debt. It might be all they do while more non-draft elites may coach/consult/work at a bike shop, but there are also plenty of artists out there who just make art then occasionally make $100 at a farmers market, but still have to get their monthly deposit from parents.
    Take a look at prize money lists for ITU events, then try to build a flight itinerary, etc. Some of that is covered, but less of it than you think outside the top handful, especially for countries with more athletes racing. There are some private funding agreements, but there is also plenty of information out there, particularly for USAT, that might give you a rough idea of who is getting more funding, and how much funding they might get. The top few aren’t losing money. Sponsor money hardly makes up the difference there either, because while 12th place in a WTS is an incredible, world class result that I can’t fatbom being that fast, it doesn’t have much ROI. Then you think about 12th in a World Cup (which is still fast!!!), or 4th in a Continental Cup and you realize...yikes.
    AaronWebsteymaggieruJennifer Postsimonsen77
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    MattMatt Member, Administrator, Rooster Endurance Member
    Now you know why the AG worlds costs so much. It subsidizes the NF and that budget helps the JR/U23/Pros, coaches and support staff.
    AaronWebsteyJennifer Postidking90Martin
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    AaronWebsteyAaronWebstey Administrator, Rooster Endurance Member, Rooster Endurance Officers
    Does anyone know if there is an actual plan? Is this anything other than just a single person tweeting pipe dreams?



    I really want to believe that they are going to do literally anything. But we have seen a lot of talk and zero action, as far as I can see.
    idking90KenElPescadoPelado
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    AaronWebsteyAaronWebstey Administrator, Rooster Endurance Member, Rooster Endurance Officers
    "There are plenty of Economics. We have all the economics, I assure you - our economics are the best, like really, really great economics."

    ???

    KenElPescadoPeladoTad_M
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    KenElPescadoPeladoKenElPescadoPelado Member, Rooster Endurance Member
    Considering the precise amount of momentum they (don't) have, the organizers should do the following:
    - hire Ben Hobbs as race director
    - rebrand as The Trailer House Triathlon
    - continue to complain on social media about financing and logistics
    - collect exorbitant race fees
    - on race morning, key personnel flee to a non-extradition country
    - optional: leave Ben behind to suck someone off for on-course hydration product, in a last-ditch attempt to actually host an event

    It will forever after be known as the Fyre festival of triathlon. How's that for sucking something out of the sport?
    MattJennifer PostNHetroTad_M
    Sometimes I tweet... Follow PescadoPelado
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    MartinMartin Member, Rooster Endurance Member

    Does anyone know if there is an actual plan? Is this anything other than just a single person tweeting pipe dreams?



    I really want to believe that they are going to do literally anything. But we have seen a lot of talk and zero action, as far as I can see.

    Likely WTC Press Release: We are pleased to support the PTO with space for a press conference in Kona 2019. Unfortunately, the only space available is in the Female pro transition, so, #sworry, but we're only taking 25 women this year.

    KenElPescadoPeladoMattTad_MJohns622
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    Zach MillerZach Miller Member, Rooster Endurance Member, POTM
    whoever is running their twitter needs a different job, or maybe they are doing a really good job putting out dumb information
    Jennifer Postmaggieru
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    Jennifer PostJennifer Post Member, Rooster Endurance Member, Level 2 Supporter

    whoever is running their twitter needs a different job, or maybe they are doing a really good job putting out dumb information

    Their tweets are ridiculous. First, do they even know the audience they are trying to reach? LC Pros, fans, potential sponsors? Their tweets are all over the place. Their arguments are even worse. I’ve seen ideas argued better at high school mock start up pitch competitions.


    AaronWebsteyKenElPescadoPelado
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    maggierumaggieru Member, Pro Triathlete
    edited March 13
    I would have to agree with the above. Occasionally the person running the account has a decent argument but the rest of the time he/she rambles and acts like they are doing this crazy service to everyone (pros, amateurs and sponsors alike) and here I’m just scrolling by like I walk past any other Boulder tinfoil-hat nut job on the street rambling about aliens.
    AaronWebsteyJennifer PostKenElPescadoPeladojrielley1406
    insta: @magrusch
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    KenElPescadoPeladoKenElPescadoPelado Member, Rooster Endurance Member
    maggieru said:

    here I’m just scrolling by like I walk past any other Boulder tinfoil-hat nut job on the street rambling about aliens.


    AaronWebsteymaggieru
    Sometimes I tweet... Follow PescadoPelado
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    Tad_MTad_M Member, Rooster Endurance Member, Level 2 Supporter, POTM

    whoever is running their twitter needs a different job, or maybe they are doing a really good job putting out dumb information

    The best defense is a good offense. Andrew Messick bought the twitter account......
    Jennifer PostMartin
    visit Michigan Aug. 1-4 - The Sworry Trials
    https://www.facebook.com/The-Sworry-Trials-2194532304133322/

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