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The bad question, why do people cheat?

PreachSwansonPreachSwanson Member, TRS/Baucco Team Member, TRS/Baucco Officers
Okay, first off, lets leave "Professional" racers out of this. There is money involved and shit happens when money gets involved.

Now, we race and all there is, is some worthless coffee mug as a trophy for placing. So why do you think people take the time and effort to cheat at a race?

I heard a good thoughtful conversation on it recently and I wonder what your thoughts are on it.

So why do people do it?
AaronWebsteyMartinKenElPescadoPeladoMamaCheetah
TRS Racing
I'm an angel with an incredible capacity for beer
«1

Comments

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    EvanEvan Member, TRS/Baucco Team Member
    genesis 3, preach :)
    MamaCheetah


    unofficial non-general counsel for TRS Racing and other TRS-related entities
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    EvanEvan Member, TRS/Baucco Team Member
    but also, i'd imagine it's to get to Kona (which is kind of a bucket list), feelings of self worth, and also to hit some arbitrary goal - for example, to get to sub 5 hours on a half ironman or go sub 10 at a full.


    unofficial non-general counsel for TRS Racing and other TRS-related entities
  • Options
    Robert RankinRobert Rankin Member, TRS/Baucco Team Member
    Ego
    wchevronAaronWebsteyMartinEvanrangamelfyrehaarShepherdMamaCheetah

    Fattest BQ on record--- *allegedly
    2016 (and last) Rev3 Cedar Point champ- don't google the time though
  • Options
    Evan said:

    but also, i'd imagine it's to get to Kona (which is kind of a bucket list), feelings of self worth, and also to hit some arbitrary goal - for example, to get to sub 5 hours on a half ironman or go sub 10 at a full.

    Are you suggesting it's expensive to enter 12 races so you get in via the legacy programme?
    AaronWebsteyEvanrigpigKenElPescadoPeladoMamaCheetah
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    Tad_MTad_M Member, TRS/Baucco Team Member, Level 2 Supporter
    Small kickstands
    M_WarePreachSwansonAaronWebsteykjrunninMartinwchevronJohns622KenElPescadoPeladoMamaCheetah

    #Sworry 2019 - See you there!
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    PreachSwansonPreachSwanson Member, TRS/Baucco Team Member, TRS/Baucco Officers
    I'm also not really worried about the DB's trying for Kona (not that all of them are, just the cheating kind). But why cut your local half marathon or sit in the shitter to come in second at some off branded race. I see it, people report it and I just don't know how it actually feeds their ego without it killing the conscious
    AaronWebsteyGranpa ChookJohns622fyrehaarMamaCheetah
    TRS Racing
    I'm an angel with an incredible capacity for beer
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    AaronWebsteyAaronWebstey Administrator, TRS/Baucco Team Member
    Some people have a void inside that will never be filled. Cheating just shortens the path to their next disappointment. It's a sad and piteous existence.
    Granpa ChookrangamelJames LangefyrehaarKenElPescadoPeladoMamaCheetahIanL
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    dhrdhr Member
    I would imagine there's a difference between a person who dopes but completes a full IM and a person who cuts the course at a marathon, for example.
    kjrunninEvanMartinJohns622
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    kjrunninkjrunnin Member, TRS/Baucco Team Member, Level 2 Supporter
    I do think there’s a difference between those who dope and the course cutters. When the Julie Miller shit hit the fan, I concluded that it’s not about the win (since she knew she didn’t win) but that she must get a thrill out of planning and successfully executing the deception.
    wchevronMartinGranpa ChookAaronWebsteyRobert RankinPreachSwansondhrTad_MfyrehaarKenElPescadoPeladoMamaCheetah

  • Options
    MartinMartin Member
    edited February 19
    dhr said:

    I would imagine there's a difference between a person who dopes but completes a full IM and a person who cuts the course at a marathon, for example.

    Nope. Both DBs, just with slightly different motivation. And risk of being caught.
  • Options
    Some good answers on here! Let's be real, people cheat on all kinds of things. Taxes, spouses, traffic laws, diets, business, whatever. Of course there is a massive differences between jay-walking and taking epo to win your shitty age-group in a sport nobody cares about.

    That takes a good deal of rationalization, cognitive dissonance, win-at-all-costs, narcissism etc. They are definitely lacking some psychological needs as well.
    AaronWebsteyJohns622MamaCheetah
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    If you are curious, a decent read unpacking the social and psychological aspects of cheating : http://www.scienceofrunning.com/2015/09/psychology-of-doping-why-were-fighting.html
    AaronWebsteyM_WarebbculpMamaCheetah
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    idking90idking90 Member, Pro Triathlete
    Honestly? Humans are capable of being, and often are pretty terrible. I understand how it's ever so slightly easier to rationalize the crappy behavior of people who live off mom and dad make a living doing the sport, but that's probably intellectually lazy and not as relevant as we might like to think. I'm not sure it's all that different. As much as we want to think athletic endeavors are different and pure, they really aren't any different from the rest of life. If anything, the more tangible outcomes available (one of the major selling points of athletics as a hobby!) make the incentive to cheat greater than most other aspects of life.
    People do awful things, from being terribly rude to strangers on dating apps, to lying on taxes, to cutting the course in an Ironman, to cheating on their spouses, to knowingly spreading false information that conforms with their own weltanschauung (take that Germanization, BPF).
    I think it's always been that way, people being awful. The difference it's just that now it's easier to leave our own little bubbles, both because it's easier to actually leave one's own bubble, and oversharing makes people send a lot more things outside their bubbles to be heard, intentionally or inadvertently. Sometimes intentionally publicize negative things they're actually anonymous, sometimes they think they're anonymous and then get found out, and other times because they're just straight up sociopaths who now have a voice because somebody accidentally stumbles on their tweet or comment or share, where previously nobody would have ever seen or heard from them.
    Don't take this as me being nihilist, cynical, pessimistic...or whatever else you want to call it. I still actually do believe people are generally good, but I'm also just not surprised when anybody is terrible. Maybe the lesson here is that people can be good, but no human is to be held to such a significantly higher standard because, well, we're human (I don't intend for that last statement to come out as a religious angle, but it's probably reworkable into one if you need something after the next high-profile scandal, @PreachSwanson ;) )
    AaronWebsteyPreachSwansonMattMamaCheetah
  • Options
    Robert RankinRobert Rankin Member, TRS/Baucco Team Member
    kjrunnin said:

    I do think there’s a difference between those who dope and the course cutters. When the Julie Miller shit hit the fan, I concluded that it’s not about the win (since she knew she didn’t win) but that she must get a thrill out of planning and successfully executing the deception.

    I think a lot of people don’t care that they know they didn’t win, they just want others to think they won.

    AaronWebsteyM_WareJennifer PostTad_MMamaCheetah

    Fattest BQ on record--- *allegedly
    2016 (and last) Rev3 Cedar Point champ- don't google the time though
  • Options
    AaronWebsteyAaronWebstey Administrator, TRS/Baucco Team Member
    idking90 said:

    Honestly? Humans are capable of being, and often are pretty terrible. I understand how it's ever so slightly easier to rationalize the crappy behavior of people who live off mom and dad make a living doing the sport, but that's probably intellectually lazy and not as relevant as we might like to think. I'm not sure it's all that different. As much as we want to think athletic endeavors are different and pure, they really aren't any different from the rest of life. If anything, the more tangible outcomes available (one of the major selling points of athletics as a hobby!) make the incentive to cheat greater than most other aspects of life.
    People do awful things, from being terribly rude to strangers on dating apps, to lying on taxes, to cutting the course in an Ironman, to cheating on their spouses, to knowingly spreading false information that conforms with their own weltanschauung (take that Germanization, BPF).
    I think it's always been that way, people being awful. The difference it's just that now it's easier to leave our own little bubbles, both because it's easier to actually leave one's own bubble, and oversharing makes people send a lot more things outside their bubbles to be heard, intentionally or inadvertently. Sometimes intentionally publicize negative things they're actually anonymous, sometimes they think they're anonymous and then get found out, and other times because they're just straight up sociopaths who now have a voice because somebody accidentally stumbles on their tweet or comment or share, where previously nobody would have ever seen or heard from them.
    Don't take this as me being nihilist, cynical, pessimistic...or whatever else you want to call it. I still actually do believe people are generally good, but I'm also just not surprised when anybody is terrible. Maybe the lesson here is that people can be good, but no human is to be held to such a significantly higher standard because, well, we're human (I don't intend for that last statement to come out as a religious angle, but it's probably reworkable into one if you need something after the next high-profile scandal, @PreachSwanson ;) )

    "Top 6 Reasons Why Cheaters Do What They Do"
    Johns622idking90
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    1: Because they're pricks
    2: Because they think that they can get away with it
    3: Because they think that if they're thinking about cheating, others are too and doing it
    4: Because life is unfair for them and others have unfair advantages: better genetics, better training, better kit and it's levelling the playing field

    But mainly 1
    James Langesimonsen77PreachSwansonMamaCheetah
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    Zach MillerZach Miller Member, TRS/Baucco Team Member
    @PreachSwanson was this conversation started by the mountain outhouse videos?
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    idking90idking90 Member, Pro Triathlete
    @AaronWebstey sorry, no more listicles from me now that I'm doing a grad degree in IT. I'm available to take over as Prince of All Technology, though. Here's my portfolio:
    http://www.business.colostate.edu/cis665/SP18King.idking/HTMLHomeworks/HTMLcssassgt/home.html
    AaronWebstey
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    Tad_MTad_M Member, TRS/Baucco Team Member, Level 2 Supporter
    1 through 4: They lack self image to the point they feel advertising a better finishing time/position in triathlon helps them gain the respect and affirmation of others.
    5. They were inadvertently locked in Webstey's office once.
    6: something to do with #1-4 or #5.
    PreachSwansonAaronWebstey

    #Sworry 2019 - See you there!
  • Options
    PreachSwansonPreachSwanson Member, TRS/Baucco Team Member, TRS/Baucco Officers
    nope, a running podcast I just listened to while working in the garage

    @PreachSwanson was this conversation started by the mountain outhouse videos?

    TRS Racing
    I'm an angel with an incredible capacity for beer
  • Options
    M_WareM_Ware Member, Level 2 Supporter
    @PreachSwanson apparently they dope in order to win bronze medals in curling. https://n.pr/2HrZPs9
    Tad_M
    Queen of All Pins and A+ Enabler
    Send your Pinterest suggestions to me at:
    QOAP@triroost.com
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    Queen of All Donut Awards
  • Options

    1 through 4: They lack self image to the point they feel advertising a better finishing time/position in triathlon helps them gain the respect and affirmation of others.
    5. They were inadvertently locked in Webstey's office once.
    6: something to do with #1-4 or #5.

    re: 5 - was Webstey in there at the time? Mental scars for sure.
    StruangTad_MOverSwimmerCraig_DAaronWebstey
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    AaronWebsteyAaronWebstey Administrator, TRS/Baucco Team Member
    idking90 said:

    @AaronWebstey sorry, no more listicles from me now that I'm doing a grad degree in IT. I'm available to take over as Prince of All Technology, though. Here's my portfolio:
    http://www.business.colostate.edu/cis665/SP18King.idking/HTMLHomeworks/HTMLcssassgt/home.html

    Fan fucking tastic!
    idking90
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    @Robert Rankin nailed it. Ego is all it is. An age-grouper who is doping is lacking something in his or her life. Boasting about his or her triathlon accomplishments to friends/family/coworkers is a drug that temporarily treats those symptoms. It releases a dopamine rush. But in the long term, it will make thing much worse. Someone like Kevin Moats has some serious personal demons that he'll likely never be able to exorcise.
    Robert RankinM_WareMartinAaronWebsteyPreachSwansonTad_M
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    AaronWebsteyAaronWebstey Administrator, TRS/Baucco Team Member
    bbculp said:

    @Robert Rankin nailed it. Ego is all it is. An age-grouper who is doping is lacking something in his or her life. Boasting about his or her triathlon accomplishments to friends/family/coworkers is a drug that temporarily treats those symptoms. It releases a dopamine rush. But in the long term, it will make thing much worse. Someone like Kevin Moats has some serious personal demons that he'll likely never be able to exorcise.

    "What Webstey said, but less terrible"
    Martin
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    I don't read your posts @AaronWebstey
    AaronWebsteyMartinidking90Tad_M
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    AaronWebsteyAaronWebstey Administrator, TRS/Baucco Team Member
    bbculp said:

    I don't read your posts @AaronWebstey

    I would have even less respect for you if you did
    idking90Tad_M
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    KenElPescadoPeladoKenElPescadoPelado Member, TRS/Baucco Team Member
    Skimming around the USADA and USAT sites today after hearing that a buddy's former coach got popped for PEDs. Couldn't find any sign of the guy still coaching, but what I did find is the coach I want if I ever go into professional eating!


    AaronWebsteyOverSwimmerCraig_DJohns622
    Sometimes I tweet... Follow PescadoPelado

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