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Stroke Rate

MamaCheetahMamaCheetah Member, TRS/Baucco Team Member
http://www.triathlete.com/2015/08/training/what-is-the-ideal-stroke-rate_120831

I know all the dudes on this forum are gonna read this thread due to the catchy title, but please don't dismiss !

My Garmin says my stroke rate is 30 !!! Is it safe to assume that means 60 in reference to this article ?

And not being a swimmer, I'm STUCK at 1:40-1:45 / 100yards. Just trying to see if increasing my stroke rate will help me ....

Even my "fast" sets have a stroke rate of 33.

I've had so many reviews of my form, worked on form, drill on form, form form form.... nuthin. Gotta be that god damn turnover rate.
AaronWebsteyTad_MCraig_DHSeeley14
«1

Comments

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    MamaCheetahMamaCheetah Member, TRS/Baucco Team Member
    .... or how do I acquire a 3rd arm ? @simonsen77 you got one of those in the stuff you're selling ?
    AaronWebsteysimonsen77KenElPescadoPeladoTad_MStruangmaggieruHSeeley14
  • Options
    Trying to see if increasing my stroke rate will help me... how do I acquire a 3rd arm....my "fast" sets have a stroke rate of 30....

    I believe our resident expert @AaronWebstey should chime in.
    MamaCheetahAaronWebsteyMattsimonsen77KenElPescadoPeladoTad_MmaggieruCraig_DjayrodkjrunninHSeeley14
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    AaronWebsteyAaronWebstey Administrator, TRS/Baucco Team Member
    Watch some old videos of Greg Bennett swimming - that's sure to get your stroke rate up, and you'll finish faster than if you had that 3rd arm to work with.
    MamaCheetah
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    MattMatt Member, Administrator



    My Garmin says my stroke rate is 30 !!! Is it safe to assume that means 60 in reference to this article?

    Yes.

    "One can safely call a stroke rate of 50–70 per minute (that means 25–35 right and 25–35 left arm strokes per minute)"




    MamaCheetahAaronWebsteyTad_MM_WareCraig_Dfyrehaar
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    simonsen77simonsen77 Member, TRS/Baucco Team Member

    .... or how do I acquire a 3rd arm ? @simonsen77 you got one of those in the stuff you're selling ?

    If you've lost your detachable "3rd arm" try the people selling junk on Second Ave. (you're old enough to remember the song!)
    KenElPescadoPeladoTad_MMamaCheetahwchevronM_Ware
    First #BAAW Badge Recipient
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    KenElPescadoPeladoKenElPescadoPelado Member, TRS/Baucco Team Member
    @simonsen77 this morning I woke up and my Garmin was missing again.
    simonsen77StruangMamaCheetahAaronWebsteyCraig_D
    Sometimes I tweet... Follow PescadoPelado
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    KenElPescadoPeladoKenElPescadoPelado Member, TRS/Baucco Team Member
    @MamaCheetah I'll have to see if my stroke rate has changed at all, but I've made some significant gains in the pool this season - between some challenging workouts dished out by pcoach Ryan (of AJB Coaching, of course) and @EmilyCocks giving me some awesome pointers in the pool.

    Do you swim with paddles at all? In my limited understanding, it seems like they can improve pull strength, and thus speed. I have a sneaky suspicion that those are the same factors contributing to @AaronWebstey's superhuman stroke rate/finishing speed, as well.
    MamaCheetahAaronWebstey
    Sometimes I tweet... Follow PescadoPelado
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    rigpigrigpig Member, TRS/Baucco Team Member
    Try swimming with a band (old tire tube) on your feet. So you have to keep your stroke rate up to float your feet. I really struggle with that one and only do sets of 25 with lots of rest.
    MamaCheetahmaggieruCraig_DKelly O'Mara

    Kevin Brydges
    You're the rig guy? You don't look like you worked on rigs....
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    MamaCheetahMamaCheetah Member, TRS/Baucco Team Member
    I woke up this morning with a bad hangover
    And my penis was missing again.
    This happens all the time.
    It's detachable.…
    AaronWebsteysimonsen77Craig_DTad_MMattmbrekk44fyrehaar
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    MamaCheetahMamaCheetah Member, TRS/Baucco Team Member
    @KenElPescadoPelado I swim with paddles constantly and still have noodles for arms.
    KenElPescadoPelado
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    MamaCheetahMamaCheetah Member, TRS/Baucco Team Member
    edited August 2017
    @simonsen77 thanks for the call out on the age too, pal !
    M_Waresimonsen77Craig_D
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    simonsen77simonsen77 Member, TRS/Baucco Team Member
    The song's from what, the early 90s? So I'm calling you out for being in your mid 30s? ;)

    2nd vote for the band on the feet.
    First #BAAW Badge Recipient
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    Craig_DCraig_D Member, TRS/Baucco Team Member
    edited August 2017
    This is what has worked for me this year:
    Get a Finis tempo trainer. The first couple of swims try to match the stroke rate to what you currently do. Once that is set for sure then increase by no more than 5 every 2 to 3 weeks. You need to train your brain to follow the beep and that takes some time. I went from 57 to 77. Another note is to make sure you are pulling back fast and not allowing your wrist to flex at all. This tip was huge for me.

    Try swimming with only a pull bouy and no paddles for a bit. That will also up your stroke rate because it will feel like your drowning. Then go back to paddles and pull bouy. I do about 75% of my swims like this.

    Do one really long session a week. At least 90 min. I do my 100 repeats on these days. Do the first 8 easy to warm up and then whatever's left as maximum sustainable. The last 2-4 are easy. It's really important to work on different paces / speeds. Do some 200's where the first 50 are all out then hang on for the rest.

    Do some vertical kicking a couple times a week. Keeps the body really tight and helps your alignment.

    My swimming has significantly improved this year because of the above. I also listen to the Tower 26 podcast. The first 4 are really good on the how to for triathlon specific swimming. A couple of tweaks and I immediately saw a difference. The rest comes down to time in the pool and what you're doing while your there I think.
    wchevronM_Waresimonsen77
    Canadian Division
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    Tad_MTad_M Member, TRS/Baucco Team Member, Level 2 Supporter

    I woke up this morning with a bad hangover
    And my penis was missing again.
    This happens all the time.
    It's detachable.…

    Poor Mike, I met him at Knoxville I think. Hey Roosters, Let's start a GoFundMe to get Mike his own apartment.
    MamaCheetah

    #Sworry 2019 - See you there!
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    Robert RankinRobert Rankin Member, TRS/Baucco Team Member
    edited August 2017
    I know very little but wouldn't think a high stroke rate would be good for endurance swimming? When I swam, I was a sprinter (50/100 free). Never bothered counting strokes then, but it was definitely faster than it is now. I just looked at my stroke rate for the first time, and apparently I have a terribly slow stroke rate.

    Edit to add: after checking my last open water swims apparently I do up my stroke rate from 50-54 in the pool to 70 in open water
    Craig_DMamaCheetah

    Fattest BQ on record--- *allegedly
    2016 (and last) Rev3 Cedar Point champ- don't google the time though
  • Options
    My experience with swimming...

    I started dropping my swim times from like 1:45 down to about 1:20ish per 100yds when I started swimming very consistently 3-4 times per week or roughly 4.5-6 hours per week. Yes the focus on form is important but feeling your body improve and create its own efficiency was what dropped my times. My previous coach had me going across the pool in the least amount of strokes possible. Moving to AJB Coaching, AJ had me switch to a much higher stroke rate(for once I'm not talking about sex.). It took some getting used to and initially my swim times increased slightly but have since dropped back down. I never really asked why(I'm just a pawn in his schemes) but I think the quicker stroke has some benefit in open water where you need to adjust quickly and efficiently. I would also guess that it's like a higher cycling cadence. If you have ever had to swim defensively a quick stroke can help tremendously.

    Other than that there are so many factors that can change swim times. Breathing rate, the way you pull, the way you reach, body position, kick, hip turn, head position,....and all of these can change eachother.

    Pretty much I have no idea what I'm talking about so.....good luck!
    Craig_DAaronWebsteyKelly O'MaraMamaCheetah
    Yay Sports! :#
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    AaronWebsteyAaronWebstey Administrator, TRS/Baucco Team Member
    Agree with @College_Tri . I wasn't joking about Greg Bennett - his stroke was never pretty, but his high stroke rate meant that he could crush through the washing machine and almost never get dropped. Think of it this way - open water swimming is a group ride, just a series of sprints and recoveries. Pool swimming is a TT, where you set your own tempo.
    wchevronBrew_TriMattCraig_DMamaCheetah
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    Kelly O'MaraKelly O'Mara Member, Pro Triathlete
    It's not the only way to do it, but band swimming eventually forces a higher stroke rate and more open water style stroke.*

    *not a swimming coach, don't yell at me about whether I'm right or not, I don't care
    AaronWebsteyMamaCheetahRash
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    AaronWebsteyAaronWebstey Administrator, TRS/Baucco Team Member
    I miss #AART
    Kelly O'Mara
  • Options

    I miss #AART

    Now it's just #AARP....
    AaronWebsteyKenElPescadoPeladoMamaCheetah
    Yay Sports! :#
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    EmilyCocksEmilyCocks Member, Pro Triathlete
    There is no gliding in open water. If you aren't moving forward you are moving backwards. Don't want to start and stop.

    And, if you want to get faster at swimming get your ass in the pool A LOT. At least 4-5x a week consistently. That is the way. You can't "technique" your way to fast swimming because you won't have the endurance and strength to hold the stroke together. You don't walk around on your hand so your arms have zero aerobic endurance unless you use them in the pool.
    Brew_TriMattCraig_DTad_MRobert RankinGranpa ChookAaronWebsteyM_WareKenElPescadoPeladoMamaCheetahAlexSfyrehaarRashKelly O'Mara
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    RashRash Member
    edited August 2017
    Not sure if the improvement is due to increased stroke rate, increased upper body strength or improved body position (likely a combo of all three), but as @Kelly O'Mara mentioned - the band. If you are an adult onset swimmer (real swimmers likely get less improvement since their body position is already pretty good) - get an old bike tube, tie it tightly around your ankles (no cheating) and swim. Start with some 25's, move to 50's and work your way up. It doesn't really take long to see improvements because it is literally sink or swim - you figure out how to get your legs up pretty quickly. Once you can do the set below, you will have shaved 10-20s/100yd off your times.

    400 wu
    8x50 band (10 sec rest)
    400 pull
    4x100 band (10 sec rest)
    400 pull
    2x200 band (10 sec rest)
    400 pull
    400 band (optional)
    400 pull (optional)
    200 cd

    ETA - This coupled with @EmilyCocks suggestion of swimming more.
    Kelly O'MaraAaronWebsteyMamaCheetah
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    God I hate band swimming. It's the antithesis of what I did growing up as a sprint free/back swimmer in the pool. Want to go faster? Swim faster. Then swim faster for longer (either longer intervals or more intervals). Eventually you'll get faster in races. The benefit of swimming faster is that it requires a higher stroke rate. So you get that benefit without specifically focusing on it.

    Also, kick. Kick a lot. You can't do that with the band (well, you can, but dolphin kicking while freestyling is pretty pointless).
    RashMamaCheetah
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    RashRash Member
    It's a different ball game when you start swimming in your 30's as opposed to when you grew up swimming. I realize it is based solely off my own experience, but 8 weeks of band 1 or 2 times a week gave me much more improvement than 1 year of masters swimming holding on for dear life in the fastest lane I could handle. Not saying only swim with a band, but I think for adult onset swimmers it's a great tool to work in to help get your stroke rate and butt/legs up.
    fyrehaarAaronWebsteyMamaCheetah
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    I'm with all the "get in the pool and swim regularly crowd. Drills are great but distance swimming is an endurance sport that requires volume.

    Since Edinburgh 70.3 in July I've fallen off the wagon and not been swimming more than three times.

    The intent is to change that in the morning and get back to every weekday morning, and I fully expect my swim to go back to 1:40/100 before the end of September. Last swim i wasn't surprised to see they were down to 1:56
    MamaCheetahCraig_D
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    MamaCheetahMamaCheetah Member, TRS/Baucco Team Member
    Adult onset swimmeritis right here. Thanks for all the great suggestions. Cats don't swim ! But immo keep tryin !!
    AaronWebsteyTad_MM_WareAlexSKenElPescadoPeladofyrehaar
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    EmilyCocksEmilyCocks Member, Pro Triathlete
    edited August 2017
    Kick a lot? Is that a joke? Unless you are doing a 400 or less for a race, don't kick a lot. Energy waster and most adult onset swimmers do not have the technique/ankle flexibility to do it correctly.

    Plus, in a wetsuit your legs are in the correct position (floated) so you don't need to kick that much. Just kick to balance to body, not for propulsion.

    A 2 beat or 4 beat kick is fine.
    Tad_MAaronWebsteyGranpa ChookfyrehaarMamaCheetah
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    MattMatt Member, Administrator
    Kick only to the face of those who keep touching your feet.
    balsdorfTad_MCraig_DAaronWebsteykjrunninKenElPescadoPeladoAlexSfyrehaarMamaCheetah
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    Tad_MTad_M Member, TRS/Baucco Team Member, Level 2 Supporter
    Matt said:

    Kick only to the face of those who keep touching your feet.

    There has to be a backpfeifengesicht type word for "a face in need of a kick"
    StruangAaronWebsteyM_Warembrekk44kjrunninKenElPescadoPeladoAlexSMamaCheetah

    #Sworry 2019 - See you there!
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    Kick a lot? Is that a joke?

    Plus, in a wetsuit your legs are in the correct position (floated) so you don't need to kick that much. Just kick to balance to body, not for propulsion.

    A 2 beat or 4 beat kick is fine.

    Not a joke. In training, kick like hell. You get major cardio gains that transfer well to running/cycling without the injury risk. Plus kicking gets your body positioned well. Don't pretend to be a 50 free sprinter going 20.x, but don't simply drag your legs behind you with the hopes that yor races will be cold and you can use a crutch in the swim.
    StruangKenElPescadoPeladoMamaCheetah

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