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TRS Latest Podcast (Intro on Bahrain)

Hi all, let's digest the latest into on Bahrain.. perhaps @Dark Mark needs to do better research again...

First of all, I would really urge you all to listen to my interview with @ZenTriathlon where all of the topics were discussed in detail..

@Ben Hobbs is saying "we have to consider the sources of income" when referring to Bahrain. "The ability and right to speak freely, to have the freedom of thought, expression.. is fundamental" Referring to Bahrain as a country ran by the Al Khalifa regime.. "women earning the right to vote in 2002"

Firstly, Bahrain is a constitutional monarchy, not a monarchy (only), but a constitutional monarchy. You have to check online or in political science books the difference between both. More importantly, it is not a country ran by a family, there is a parliament, that people elect and choose, who work hand in hand with the selected ministers as a form of checks and balances, similar to administration and congress. This house in government protect the rights of the population by questioning or 'grilling' ministers, including a constitutional right for every citizen, which is the freedom of speech, press etc.

Ben goes on to say "we have a Sunni population of 10%, royal family is Sunni, Shia population of 90%"

WHAT!! I almost choked to be honest when I heard this. Where is this information coming from? Seriously, what is the source? But here's the thing, you want to divide the country based on religious beliefs? Why not divide based on color? What if I walk into congress in America and say, guys, we have too many white people here, need to fix the proportion based on your population and color. This is simply nonsense. Hispanics, blacks, protestants, muslims, WHATEVER, they all need to have the right to vote for whoever comes up with the best prosperity package. We don't want to pop up kids just so that we skew the population in order to have more blacks or indians in congress. By the way, there was no Sunni Shia problem in Iraq before America showed up... think about it

"protester, bloggers, women, men, were arrested, they were imprisoned, tortured, many of them are still in prison, and" basically because of free speech.

Here's the thing, this rhetoric is only heard by pro-Iranians and Iran themselves (who are somehow friends with America today). Thus, what Bahrain did was bring about an external committee endorsed by the United Nations to do a complete and thorough report on these lies and present to the world the truth about Bahrain.. so not sure which pro-Iranian spoke to you Ben, but here's the independent report, you can read it yourself. By the way, I did post it in your website before.. http://www.bici.org.bh/BICIreportEN.pdf

Who is in prison today? Well, name one person only, only one, who is in prison because of free speech, or still in prison as you say.. I'm called you out @Ben Hobbs

"Royal Families do not put themselves on trial" Can you support this? This guy was executed by the way http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-saudi-execution-idUKBRE9BS05W20131229

"Very credible human rights organization" I can counter this statement by the UN Commission of Inquiry.. These human rights organizations are totally wrong, they are biased, thus, the independent report is what the UN and State Department, and all foreign ministries in Europe have accepted. So you should as well.

"He Himself was torturing" This is a blunt statement from you. You need to listen to how you said it without stating "allegedly". Not sure why you're doing this, but it is not an ethical thing to do.. By the way, the guy who filed the case in UK on him, is in prison right now for funding terrorist organizations.. how about that huh? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3364306/Pictured-pistol-convicted-terrorist-facing-jail-regularly-visited-Jeremy-Corbyn-Parliament.html That's your allegedly right there...

So, let's talk about it why don't we.. Happy to come to your show anytime..
TriDVMDHansenTri
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Comments

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    Thank you for the additional information!
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    Firstly, Bahrain is a constitutional monarchy, not a monarchy (only), but a constitutional monarchy. You have to check online or in political science books the difference between both.
    Because OP wrote a whole article but was too lazy to do a google search for us

    http://www.governmentvs.com/en/constitutional-monarchy-vs-monarchy/comparison-42-14-0
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    uliuli
    edited January 2016
    @Saqeralkhalifa
    What's your take on Qatar? I'm not interested in any PC. Thanks.
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    edited January 2016



    What if I walk into congress in America and say, guys, we have too many white people here, need to fix the proportion based on your population and color. This is simply nonsense.

    That's exactly what we should be doing. The whole point of a modern, enlightened democracy is that it represents the people REGARDLESS of their background and creed and gives every citizen the opportunity to their maximum potential and rise above their roots. To suggest that US legislature wouldn't be improved by their being a few less filthy rich old white guys does you no justice.

    By the way, there was no Sunni Shia problem in Iraq before America showed up... think about it

    This is a bit disingenuous . I don't think you can suggest that the attempted annihilation of religious and cultural groups in Iraq was down to the US and had nothing to do with Chemical Ali and a ruling party hell bent on removing all diversity from the Arab world.


    "protester, bloggers, women, men, were arrested, they were imprisoned, tortured, many of them are still in prison, and" basically because of free speech.

    Here's the thing, this rhetoric is only heard by pro-Iranians and Iran themselves (who are somehow friends with America today). Thus, what Bahrain did was bring about an external committee endorsed by the United Nations to do a complete and thorough report on these lies and present to the world the truth about Bahrain.. so not sure which pro-Iranian spoke to you Ben, but here's the independent report, you can read it yourself. By the way, I did post it in your website before.. http://www.bici.org.bh/BICIreportEN.pdf

    This rhetoric is only heard by pro-Iranians?? I am not pro-Iranian, I don't think much of the UK press is pro-Iranian and yet I've heard this... good propaganda.

    Also FYI re: BICI report see line 1 beginning "Commissioned by..." not sure that a report commissioned by the guy its reporting on really counts as "independent" to most of us. Also - and I really can't stress this enough ITS NOT A UN REPORT!!!!!



    Who is in prison today? Well, name one person only, only one, who is in prison because of free speech, or still in prison as you say.. I'm called you out @Ben Hobbs

    Zainab al-Khawaja



    "Very credible human rights organization" I can counter this statement by the UN Commission of Inquiry.. These human rights organizations are totally wrong, they are biased, thus, the independent report is what the UN and State Department, and all foreign ministries in Europe have accepted. So you should as well.

    By this and your reference above conclude you mean the Bahrain Commission of Inquiry established by the Royal Family? This consulted the UN... it wasn't independently commissioned by the UN. You attempt to present this as equivalent to the UN Commission of Inquiry on Syria or Eritrea... it isn't hence it isn't on the OHCHR (see left links to Current and Past COIs and FFMs http://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/HRC/Pages/HRCIndex.aspx )



    "He Himself was torturing" This is a blunt statement from you. You need to listen to how you said it without stating "allegedly". Not sure why you're doing this, but it is not an ethical thing to do.. By the way, the guy who filed the case in UK on him, is in prison right now for funding terrorist organizations.. how about that huh? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3364306/Pictured-pistol-convicted-terrorist-facing-jail-regularly-visited-Jeremy-Corbyn-Parliament.html That's your allegedly right there...

    So, let's talk about it why don't we.. Happy to come to your show anytime..

    Fair enough, I agree that I don't believe there is enough out there on those specifics to make that statement and it should have allegedly on it.

    For what its worth I actually thought Ben's intro this week was generally very good. I think it made an effort to try and portray what has and continues to be a major talking point in our sport and also reflects Ben's sadness that this continues to be a negative issue affecting our sport.

    Now I really hope all my formatting of the quotes worked properly otherwise this is going to look very odd.
    boffermanlisasmelserRobert RankinDHansenTriGentlemanJerseyDaveBrent_Rtoddcurtis_
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    Well it's a good thing we have a protected member of the royal family here to tell us the royal family is flawless.
    toddcurtis_
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    I get the impression that most westerners on this forum have reached doxastic closure about Bahrain and the middle-east.
    Choose life… But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin’ else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you’ve got triathlon?
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    @Saqeralkhalifa I confess. I'm talking with Iranians all the time and they have totally influenced my thinking on this subject.

    I will be happy to retract my 90% figure. Upon review, it's probably more like 70%. Not sure why 90% stuck in my head, and I will be happy to make a correction, not that it's material to the points I was making.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia–Sunni_relations

    I had read this Wikipedia entry once upon a time, trying to learn more about the issue. It might all be bullshit though, written by Iranians.

    I would have to re-listen to myself to prove it, but my comments around Prince Nassar most certainly stopped short of "he's guilty." In summary, I said credible 3rd party HR organizations have presented convincing evidence.

    Allegedly.

    As for an appearance on the podcast, I'm happy to do that sometime. You'd have to promise not to be loading your bike in your car while we're recording. My audience would be too distracted.

    Perhaps you'd appear with a member or Human Rights Watch or another non-Iranian HR organization so that we can get 2 sides to the story.
    uliDHansenTriJames LangeGentlemanJerseyDavewchevronItsShugBrent_Rtoddcurtis_yournotunique
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    @TRS_tri I was actually going to suggest this, that I appear along with someone from HRW or whoever. I know the Iranian rhetoric sounds funny, but ask anyone in the US Navy who has been stationed here, or has been recently to Iraq or Kuwait, or has actually lived in this part of the world, and then you'll understand.

    I promise I won't be loading my bike, @ZenTriathlon didn't tell me that he started recording already!

    I can choose to reply to the other guy who went a bit deep on my comments, but I'd rather leave it for the show..

    Let me know..

    DHansenTriGentlemanJerseyDaveRobert RankinItsShugboffermanJames LangeBrent_RAaronWebsteytoddcurtis_
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    I would love to hear this discussion. I have absolutely no basis for opinion or bias so I think it would be interesting to hear the arguments from both sides.
    Ryan HeislerwchevronRobert RankinMartinJames LangeBrent_RAaronWebsteylisasmelserCraig Dtoddcurtis_pete
    Living life in pursuit of triathlon greatness and not pissing off my wife. Also trying to understand Dark Mark and why he's left New York yet again, but this time for Oklahoma. At least it's not Florida.
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    Seems like a pretty worthwhile podcast can come of this.
    Great Uncle, Average Father, Mediocre Triathlete
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    @TRS_tri is becoming less and less like Howard Stern. That is unless this interview goes batshit crazy
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    @bofferman First question: "So Saqer, how old were you when you lost your virginity?"
    dhrSaqeralkhalifaCraig D


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    @James Lange - 2nd questions > do you have an independent source to verify that?
    James LangeDHansenTri
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    @bofferman First question: "So Saqer, how old were you when you lost your virginity?"

    What is HRW's position on butt stuff?
    MathiesonJacob
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    The problem with all this political scrap everywhere is all the bullshit hyperbole and gotcha moves. No matter what the situation anybody can find 100's of experts to validate both sides of the story. To be honest I don't know Jack shit about Bahrain but obviously the truth is somewhere in between both sides of the story. Just today I read a long twitter dialog about how 9/11 is a great conspiracy and it's all fake. The guy submits a laundry list of credible engineers who say jet fuel could not of taken down the WTC. Since these guys are credible I guess we just take their word as gospel? Bottom line here is no one involved in this forum except for maybe the O.P. has any direct knowledge of what happened . why are we so judgemental on Bahrain the U.S. attended the Olympics in China for Christ sake which I would wager has way more human rights violations than Bahrain can muster in the next 50 years. I would like all of you who wish to bash Bahrain for their aleged activities to move somewhere where there have not been any HR violations in the last 20 years, then start throwing stones. I'm not trying to stick up for Bahrain I just don't know why they have ended up as the TRS whipping boy. Maybe whoever got that 7 deep money from Lake Placid should give it back because Lance Armstrong donated. Didn't he cheat as well as bully and Intimidate people to hide his secret. To be cynical it's all Dirty in some way or another. No one should do an IRONMAN either those darn Chineese again.

    Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

    SaqeralkhalifawchevronDHansenTriMathiesonJacobyournotunique
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    @Craig_Parsons Well, there are quite a few logical fallacies in that post, but I thank you for your opinion.
    dhruliGentlemanJerseyDave
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    One more thing maybe Jackie Robinson should never of played for the Dodgers since they had been discriminatory and racist before.

    Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

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    TRS_tri wrote:
    @Craig_Parsons Well, there are quite a few logical fallacies in that post, but I thank you for your opinion.
    I'm sure there are logical fallacies on both sides of the issue.

    Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

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    The problem with all this political scrap everywhere is all the bullshit hyperbole and gotcha moves. No matter what the situation anybody can find 100's of experts to validate both sides of the story. To be honest I don't know Jack shit about Bahrain but obviously the truth is somewhere in between both sides of the story. Just today I read a long twitter dialog about how 9/11 is a great conspiracy and it's all fake. The guy submits a laundry list of credible engineers who say jet fuel could not of taken down the WTC. Since these guys are credible I guess we just take their word as gospel? Bottom line here is no one involved in this forum except for maybe the O.P. has any direct knowledge of what happened . why are we so judgemental on Bahrain the U.S. attended the Olympics in China for Christ sake which I would wager has way more human rights violations than Bahrain can muster in the next 50 years. I would like all of you who wish to bash Bahrain for their aleged activities to move somewhere where there have not been any HR violations in the last 20 years, then start throwing stones. I'm not trying to stick up for Bahrain I just don't know why they have ended up as the TRS whipping boy. Maybe whoever got that 7 deep money from Lake Placid should give it back because Lance Armstrong donated. Didn't he cheat as well as bully and Intimidate people to hide his secret. To be cynical it's all Dirty in some way or another. No one should do an IRONMAN either those darn Chineese again.

    Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk



    Craig_Parsons Level 2 - Headless Chicken
    andrewm88
    Do you know who I am?
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    At least I can make sense of seeing Mr Khalifa defending Bahrain. Sara Gross and her husband? Not so much...
    GentlemanJerseyDaveJames Langeyournotunique
    Do you know who I am?
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    Ok so if you want to take shots that fine. Then tell me how do any of you justify living in America where we have tortured people and treated our own citizens unfairly due to their political beliefs? Not saying it's right I just want someone to tell me where no human rights violations occur. Paulo your aim isn't perfect yet.

    Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

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    Do you even know what a logical fallacy is? I'm going to guess: no.
    dhr
    Do you know who I am?
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    TheActualPaulo wrote:
    Do you even know what a logical fallacy is? I'm going to guess: no.
    I'm guessing your rhetoric is because you can't answer the question. #putUpOrShutUp

    Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

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    You're cracking me up. Do go on. #hashtag
    Do you know who I am?
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    edited January 2016
    TheActualPaulo wrote:

    You're cracking me up. Do go on. #hashtag

    TheActualPaulo #bigHatNoCattle #catFluffer #stickToCoaching
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    @bofferman Do you really listen to Howard Stern, seriously? Do you know why his show has worked and thrived for over 30 years?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Do you think we are talking about Bahraini citizens choosing to live in Bahrain, or something, @Craig_Parsons?

    Honestly, you couldn't be further off the mark if you tried.
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    I might be wrong, but I think @Craig Parsons main intent is to say that facts can be spun to support different sides of an argument and it's difficult to sort out the actual truth. The support for that position seems to be what people are hung up on. To the main point (if that is the main point) we should try to have more dialogue on this issue giving both sides an opportunity to present their cases letting us listeners judge for ourselves what the truth is re Bahrain, the past actions of that country and their political leadership, the current situation, and their future vision when it comes to sport and otherwise.
    Ryan HeislerTRS_trilisasmelserCraig DScolly
    Living life in pursuit of triathlon greatness and not pissing off my wife. Also trying to understand Dark Mark and why he's left New York yet again, but this time for Oklahoma. At least it's not Florida.
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    Yes dhansentri I have three points
    1. information can be spun any way.
    2. Why is Bahrain worse than almost anywhere else. Even if the alleged allegations are true.
    3. I'm not condoning any human rights violations. I just think that they are everywhere.

    This kind seems like doping in cycling . Cycling gets hammered because they try to clean it up, while the nfl takes no grief at all and they dontcrealky even try to clean it up. Again this is a loose analgy.


    Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

    DHansenTriRyan HeislerScolly
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    edited January 2016

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